BOAZ David, I shouldn't think anyone faults you for ringing the alarm bell on the Islamic extremist(violent by word or deed)with in Australian society and discussing the harm done to the laws and secular associations through appeasement(rather than standing firm on the laws of the land). Having said that, I think it is just as necessary to relax ones grip on the bell rope and give credit where credit is due with out fearing any loss to your concerns in argument.

Peace

Hi Cowboy Joe,

Amr Khaled is not into politics and his most famous work now is ‘invitation to co-existence”. He is viewed by +30 million Muslims (mainly youth) and is considered the most influential modern thinker amongst Muslims today. I am not sure I understand how Arafat (as a politician) fits into this discussion? Israel and Palestine is about a land conflict and not religious conflict and most Arabs (and Muslims) support 2 states solution. I separate ‘Arabs’ and Muslims as Arabs are only 16% of the Muslim world.

Boaz,

“To be a bit repetitive”
You are! :) No offence intended.
As Aqvarivs said you have to give credit when it’s due and support the moderate majority.
Where we disagree is this:
- I think the only way to get rid of Radicals is to empower moderates of the same faith and hence radical Islam (at an ideology level) is moderate Muslim problem to deconstruct as a first line of defence.
- The first nail in the radicals’ coffin is to stop linking them to Islam by finding them another name like what the British did with the IRA. If the British called them ‘radical Catholics’ or 'Catholic terror’ where would we be today?

PS: I disagree with your comment “radicals converting moderates”. If it was so easy they wouldn’t have resorted to bombing the moderates: 90%+ of terrorism victims are Muslims. There is a line between ringing bells and promoting the tactics of fear Boaz,

Thanks, I will try to keep track of A Khaled. Hope he doesn't have an accident.

The 'moderates' have been very quiet over the years and even when very few of them do speak up their criticism is mild in comparison to the activities of the radicals. They (Islamists) are not really Muslim's seems to be the common statement. I do not recall any marches against the militarisation of Islam but they have marched in Sydney for other reasons. My suspicion is that they are quite content to have a bet both ways -- their perception might be the promise of a win win situation.

Perhaps they are busy paying the mortgage, raising children, coping with work and trying to enjoy themselves once in awhile but it would be very reassuring if they could somehow manage a more vehement denouncement.

They do not seem to be aware of OLO either.

New apostasy bill to impose death on anyone who leaves Islam http://uppompeii1.uppompeii.com/

Islamabad (AsiaNews) – A draft bill adopted in first reading by Pakistan’s National Assembly is now before a standing committee. Tabled by a six-party politico-religious alliance, the Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal or MMA, the Apostasy Act 2006 which the government sent to the committee would impose the death penalty on Muslim men and life in prison on Muslim women in case they leave Islam. It would also force them to forfeit their property and lose legal custody of children.

During the same session, lawmakers rejected another draft bill moved by minority MNA Bhandara which sought to amend the existing blasphemy law....

Should the bill become law anyone who leaves Islam for another religion can be sentenced to death (if male) or life in prison ‘until repentance occurs’ (if female).

Section 4 of the bill says that the offender’s own confession in court or the testimony by at least two adults is sufficient grounds for conviction in apostasy cases. Testimony by non Muslims is not however admissible in certain Pakistani courts.

Section 5 stipulates that the ‘offender’ must be granted 3 to 30 days to recant the conversion and return to Islam. But even in cases where the person returns to Islam judges can impose two-year sentences as punishment for the original ‘crime’. The accused can convert and reconvert up to three times before the death sentence becomes automatic.

I will be listening to talk back radio waiting for moderate Australian Muslims to soundly denounce the legislation. Their silence will speak volumes -- again.

The appeasers will spin an alternate reality-- again and the world community will appear impotent in stopping the radical movement.

And Sydneysiders think Mormons are a dangerous sect. Doh!

Joe... now you may begin to understand my enduring affection for mr Musharraf.... were it not for him, such laws I'm sure would be passed in an instant.

Contrary to what F.H. suggests.. the 'conversion of the moderates' by radicals issue.. well.. look at it here. The 'Quranic' Muslims are behind this law, and may I say it first perfectly like a glove into the Quranic and Hadith teaching on the issue.

So, it becomes clear, that in a country (UNlike Australia) where Islam is the dominant religion, there will be pressure from the 'zealots' to return to the foundation documents and practices of the religion concerned.

FH. speaks from a 'minority status' Islam, and connects our thinking with those selected individuals who's mention promotes his benign approach.

Sadly, the reality against which I for one am struggling, is that which you observe in Pakistan. Like they say "It won't happen over night, but it will....happen" and I'm referring to the ugly (but real)side of Islam.

Note..I say "Islam"... that law IS the faith,- the religion itself.

People like FH in western societies would not make much mention of this, but I highly doubt that FH would stand up in the town square in Islamabad and cry out against such a law..... would you FH.? :)

In fact..it might make a good documentary.. "Australian Christians and Jews fund a trip by moderate Muslim to Pakistan to publically denounce the punishment for apostacy law" and the ABC 4 corners can have a camera crew there to witness and record what happens.

Inconsistent as usual, Boaz.

>>Note..I say "Islam"... that law IS the faith,- the religion itself<<

If this is true, and since Pakistan is undoubtedly a Muslim country, how come the law in question a) does not already exist or b) has not been passed?