I am a little bit surprised that there has been so little examination of what the Imam actually meant.

His comments have been defended with assertions that they were taken out of context and miscontrued. Surely this opens at least the possibility that the comments do not constitute the misogyny that they seem to constitute.

Perhaps the misunderstanding is even due to 'cultural differences' or different linguistic forms so we, who pride ourselves on being so culturally sensitive, should surely at least look at the cultural context.

Maybe his comments were as simply misogynistic as they appear to be but we must at least investigate what was behind the words. To date the debate has seemed to constitute people simply presuming they know what he meant and talking about what should be done about that rather than talking about what he actually meant.

I for one would welcome a statement from Hilali explaining what he was trying to say but I suspect his minders are just telling him to shut up and see if it blows over.

There's no doubt Sheik was speaking about sydney gang rapes.

Now, let's look at the girl who was raped:

18-year-old white girl, was raped 25 times by up to 14 muslim men including Skaf in 2000, was being Australian.

What was her dress?
A typical dress suited for job-interview. (may be a skirt which exposed the meat (legs) to a small extent.

What was she doing?
Sitting on a train, dressed for a job interview in her best suit, and reading The Great Gatsby.

What did the rapist(s) say during rape?
she was a slut, an "Aussie pig" as they called her later, while boasting: "I'm going to f--- you Leb style."

What did the the father of rapist(s) say?
"What do they expect to happen to them? Girls from Pakistan don't go out at night."

What did Sheik Feiz Mohammad say about that?
A victim of rape every minute somewhere in the world," Sheik Feiz Mohammad told 1000 people at Bankstown Town Hall last year. "Why? No one to blame but herself. She displayed her beauty to the entire world ... strapless, backless, sleeveless, nothing but satanic skirts, slit skirts, translucent blouses."

what did Sheik Hilaly say during that ramadan sermon?

"A woman possesses the weapon of seduction. It is she who takes off her clothes, shortens them, flirts, puts on make-up and powder and takes to the streets, God protect us ... then it's a look, then a smile, then a conversation ... then a date, then a meeting, then a crime, then Long Bay jail. Then you get a judge, who has no mercy, and he gives you 65 years."

Now, people who defend the sheik please come up with some other stuff.

From todays Sydney Morning Herald Tom Zreika from the Lebanese Muslem association is reported to have said "While declining to confirm any decision to stage an umma, he indicated the process had been discussed and confirmed it was one way of resolving the sheik's position as Australia's most senior Muslim cleric. "What we want at the moment is for everybody to calm down and that includes John Howard, Morris Iemma and Kim Beazley," he said."

If the Sheik was to make those comments in a work place he would be severely reprimanded or lose his position. His comments are a slur on women generally both Muslem and women from various Western backgrounds. Implicite in his comments is the view that violence is excusable under certain circumstances. I think that generally it is considered quite immature to blame the victim rather than the perpetrator, as Hilaly has done.

To be fair to Tom Zreika, he has indicated they are investigating the possibility of removing the Sheik's title from him. However, when unfortune metaphors come from the mouth of a religious leader which condone violence, then it is fair enough that Political leaders make a stand.

Dear Mercurious.....

normal rapes are about lust and power.

The Skaf and company gang rapes were about cultural and religious assertion as well.

They stand out as racial/religious hate crimes.

There is a difference between a normal rape and such rapes.

I know your smart enough to get that, so it suprises me you seem not to.

ROB12345
The sheik spoke in Arabic, it was translated into English, the key point is not ambiguous.

"Who's fault".... 'the meats'. You cannot re-contextualize this, or de/reconstruct it in any way which takes away form the clear and unambigious meaning.

In context...he is speaking about modesty in dress. Its not rocket science. He went further.. he attributed FAULT and blame to the female if she is molested. There is no possible other way to understand his remarks.

He also insults Australian men, suggesting we are ready to rape and molest at the slightest hint of immodesty in females.

His direct connection to the gang rapes, by Muslims, is evidence that he blames the 'meat'. Even though he condemned the rapes.. (probably kicking and screaming) but he still blamed the 'meat' as did the father of Skaf and others.

IF...he was thinking just of 'unwanted attention/sexist remarks' he would not have alluded to the RAPES.

So... in the actual meaning and the understood meaning by those closest to outcomes as described in his sermon, it is unmistakable that he blames 'exposed meat' for the cat eating it not the cat.

Irfan and Fellow Human,
I believe that you blokes are fair dinkum in trying to encourage integration of muslims into the wider community, so I have a couple of questions that i hope you can answer.

I have noticed that all muslim critics and supporters of Sheik Hilali say he should not have said those things, but none have said that he is wrong in that muslims do not believe his asertions about women in western dress. This also accured when Sheik Feiz Mahammed made his comments about women. I get the feeling that all, or nearly all, muslims are taught this from a very early age.

Can you categoricly say that the comments are wrong and most muslims are NOT taught that women in western dress, os scantily dressed, are whores and sluts.

I think this is important because, from the conduct of the gang rapists, friends/family, comments by both Sheiks Hilali and Feiz Mahammed, and the reported conduct of muslim youths at Cronulla beach which caused locals to take action, all indicate that muslims generally believe that non-muslim women are whores and sluts.

I do hope you can answer this, not only for my benefit, but because it is unfair if most muslims are wrongly critisied.

Banjo you can not integrate any religion with sane community. The imperative of those who believe in God is to capture the minds of the innocent and if so fails destroy them. The belief in God is a great threat to nations; religion destroys security, morality, wisdom, common sense, rationality, harmony, cohesion, progress. The god believer is paranoid, focussed on death and hopes to become immortal. They have no room for respect for those that do not believe as they do. It has nothing to do with race or culture. Islam is destroying what should be prosperous areas of the world as Islam is a people destroyer. Similarly Christianity is destroying the U.S; the Bible belt is an underdeveloped country. Both cults of Christianity and Islam hold the superstition of the end of times, rapture , Armageddon ect, This makes them both extremely dangerous cults and is why we see terrorism and war emanating from both cults. If the Sheik was saying something not believed and followed he would have been shouted down, he wasn’t, nor are the rapturists in Hill Song, nor is the ranting of other sects. Australia has to wake up and deal with this growing horrific problem. We have the opportunity to address this problem in the Australian way, peacefully and intelligently, we are dealing with a wave of insanity. Governments should ban children from religious institutions and religious schools and provide councillors and education programs in all churches, mosques, prayer rooms. If we just let Muslims and Christians run riot we will go the way of Afghanistan, the U.S or Iran. Everybody should have a right to believe what they want and I support that but when religion and superstition becomes a threat to society or touches the lives of non-believers then it must be defused. We are sitting on a time bomb, the sheiks comments are only a glimpse in to the insanity and superstition led hysteria we are facing.