Banjo & Yabby,

Totally agree with your comments.
I lived and travelled many countries. Men's attitude to women is cultural/ behavioral problem and can't be religious.

Even within the same culture there is a spectrum: In North Africa countries, a moderately dressed woman is OK in Morroco but could be looked at differently in Cairo for example.
The same goes for Mediterranean/ Europen cities.

Yabby,

I just read your comment re Muslims and others arrested in Egypt. agree with some of your comments but would correct you on the Muslim brothers movement. The issue with this movement is not that black & white unfortunately. The movement iteself is a spectrum that ranges from charitable moderate organisations to conservatives all the way to hardliners. The Brotherhood movement scholars are the same as they vary from the moderate sheikh Ghazali to the more conservative Dr Qaradawy.
The assasination of Sadat is a different story as the responsible organisation (Egyptian Islamic Jihad), although inspired by Kotb, rejects the passivity of the Muslim brotherhood. The spiritual leader of Egypt Islamic Jihad, Dr Omar A/Rahman have developed an ultra dangerous ideology and its targeting Muslims and non-Mulsims equally.

Scrutinizing Muhammad’s example and teachings

Washington Post, Andrew Bostom, 15 October 2006

Review: THE TRUTH ABOUT MUHAMMAD, Robert Spencer, Regnery, $27.95, 224 pages.
”Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the former Dutch Parliamentarian and secular Muslim reformer, has courageously identified the taboo discussion which must take place to understand, and defuse, the scourge of modern jihad terrorism: "In their thinking about radical Muslim terrorism most politicians, journalists, intellectuals, and other commentators have avoided the core issue of the debate, which is Muhammad's example." This taboo is all the more puzzling, and dangerously delusional, given the public pronouncements of Muslim Brotherhood "spiritual" leader, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, one of the most influential contemporary Muslim thinkers…..”

At: http://www.washingtontimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20061014-102317-6886

Muslim fatwa; " It is not permissible to reside in a non-Muslim
country and get their citizenship except in dire necessity of life or a
considerable religious need."

Fatwa
There is no doubt that a person who accepts the naturalization of
disbelieving countries commits many religious infractions.
Among these infractions is to utter what is not permissible to believe
in or abide by, like accepting their regime which is totally different
from Islaam, and uttering an oath to be loyal and friendly with them.
This will also oblige him to serve in their army if military service is
obligatory in their country, as well as fight on their side against
their enemies even if these enemies are his brothers in religion and
creed, not to mention many more obligations which contradict Islaam.
cont...

Fatwa

Living in a non-Muslim country or migration to it is permissible only if
a person can not find Muslim country where he can earn a livelihood and
can practice his religion freely.
It is also permissible for Muslim scholars live in non-Muslim countries
for the purpose of Dawah i.e., calling non-Muslims towards Islam and
teaching the Muslim rules of Sharia if they do not feel tempted to
compromise or leave their religion.
All the mentioned details are related to the rule of Muslims living in
non-Muslim countries. But the rule for applying and accepting
citizenship of those countries is, much restricted. A Muslim is not
permitted to apply for citizenship of non-Muslim countries except in
dire need, such as not being able to practice his religion in his own
country or fear of oppression or being in danger for his life or he
threat of imprisonment or torture in his homeland and there is no
Islamic country where he can live. In such circumstances one can apply
for citizenship of a non-Muslim country. If it is obliged to take an
oath for getting citizenship, at that moment one should try to allude to
the words of oath as much as possible to escape their intended point. If
he is able to live harmlessly in the non-Muslim country without taking
the citizenship then applying for citizenship is not permissible for
him. It is forbidden for him to apply for citizenship of a non-Muslim
country if he is simply aspiring to material comforts or financial gain.
Allah Says (interpretation of meaning): {And never will Allâh grant to
the disbelievers a way (to triumph) over the believers.}[4: 141].
No doubt, the believer who accepts the nationality of a non-Muslim
country gives non-believers an advantage over him to force him to follow
their rules and regulations.

Posted by Yabby, Sunday, 5 November 2006 10:32:08 PM
“Any comment has to be taken in the context in which it is said
and by whom. You ignore these variables at your peril.”

Yes, but those variables have to be justified – don’t forget this ‘taken in context’ argument is exactly the argument that Hilali uses to justify his comments.

The example that was put to me compared a child using abusive language to an adult using abusive language. This example used the validity of the difference between ‘appropriate response to an adult’ and ‘appropriate response to child’ to justify the difference between ‘appropriate response to a man’ and ‘appropriate response to a woman’ – that is not appropriate

Hi saba & Fellow Human(cultural),

This is how Mohammed wed Zainab:

Muhammad fell in love with Zainab, daughter of Jahsh, while she was the wife of Zayd bin Harithah, his own adopted son. Once, when he passed by the house of Zayd in the latter's absence, he was met by Zainab wearing clothes which exposed her beauty. Muhammad's heart was inflamed. It is reported that when his eyes fell upon her, he exclaimed, "Praise be to God who changes the hearts of men" and he repeated this expression at the time of his departure from her home. Zainab heard him say this and noticed desire in his eye. Zainab proudly reported this happening to her husband. Zayd immediately went to see the Prophet and offered to divorce his wife. Muhammad answered, "Hold to your wife and fear God." Thereafter, Zainab was no longer a docile wife and Zayd had to divorce her. Prophet Muhammad married Zainab Bint Jahsh who was his daughter-in-law. That was definitely taboo in pre-Islamic Arabia, and the Prophet of Islam lifted this taboo in order to satisfy his own lust and fulfill his own desire. They also relate that when Muhammad saw her she was half-naked, that her fine black hair was covering half of her body, and that every curve of her body was full of desire and passion. Others relate that when Muhammad opened the door of the house of Zayd the breeze played with the curtains of the room of Zainab, thus permitting Muhammad to catch a glimpse of her stretched out on her mattress in a nightgown.