G'day,

dee, coach & carnifex, my goal in engaging you in dialogue was so that people here could gauge the extent of your deep-seated and obsessive hatred of anything even remotely related to Islam and Muslims.

I have succeeded in my goal. Thank you. It should now be clear to all and sundry that your hate-filled expressed views are so alien to Australian values and Judeo-Christian ethics that they should be dismissed as rabble. You bring disrepute upon yourselves, upon the faiths and cultures you claim to represent and upon these forums.

I respect the fact that OLO forum moderators allows your comments here (though I can't help but wonder if they would allow such comments if any other faith were the target). The fact remains that you simply cannot find anything even remotely positive to say about things even remotely connected to Islam and Muslims. If that isn't hatred, what is?

Still, it isn't against the law to harbour hatred for others. I just hope you never act on that hatred.

I think the rest of us on these forums should be thankful the vast majority of Australians (indeed, the vast majority of human beings) aren't as inspired by such venom and hatred.

Irfan,

What you have succeeded to demonstrate to us is that there is nothing good about Islam full stop.

When I asked you why you were a muslim, you have once more resorted to personal attacks in lieu of answering simple direct questions. I say you can’t handle the truth my boy.

As a representative of Islam on these forums, and a moderate muslim intellectual Aussie bred type, when it comes to showing us your true colours, you quickly put on your chameleon coat for the occasion.

Unless you agree with what I’ve said before, my questions and remarks remain open to you or any other defender of Islam...

The majority of Australians would love to know - what is so good about islam before we declare it a pesaceful religion.

Coach referred to legitimate Quranic verses such as

"Kill them when they attack you", and this is where the astute muslim points out 'This is defensive'.

When they neglect the numerous justifications in the Hadith such as:

"Justification for killing women and chidren during the night raids, so long as it is not deliberate"

I've referenced these with sources b4 so I won't repeat it this time.
The problem here is that when you think about

1/ Night raids
2/ Women and children

Its hard to imagine that an attacking army has brought along 'the whole family' from their Roman base camps or remote Arabian villages to enjoy the battle.

So it raises the questions
1/ "How is attacking at night, and killing women and children in reality defense" ?
2/ "How does this fit the normal profile of an attacking army"?

Of course we all know that attack is the best form of defense, so this is ok as far as it goes, BUT.... it totally takes the wind out of any claim that Islam can only 'fight defensively' against active attackers.

The idea that there are women and children present in the enemy 'camp' suggests much more a 'village/town/city' environment than a mobile army.

If "Attack" can be called 'Defense' then does it matter if your mob is being attacked in Afghanistan, but you fight the attackers in Australia ? After all, you are 'defending Islam' attacking the attacker ...right ?

So, clearly Islam by tradition justifies the attack on any 'PERCEIVED' enemy, and also the slaughter of their women and children "as long as its not deliberate" But in those days, without bombs or grenades, the only way to kill someone is by sword, so.... don't you have to 'see' the person you are slicing ? Is it not possible to differentiate between "Adult" and "Child" ?

Dee's account of the train attack shows clearly the following:

"A significant number of ordinary Muslims will attack Australians if they believe Australia is attacking Muslims anywhere in the world"

Is this 'hate' or 'common sense and self preservation' ?

Irf – How have you succeeded in your goal? You have not responded to one single question asked of you, you have simply engaged in name-calling and wordplay eg, ‘have you met every single Muslim ..’ .

Instead of rabidly attacking anyone who criticises Islam, why don’t you respond to the legitimate concerns about Muslim immigration? Why have you nothing to say about the situation in Europe, which can be laid directly at the door of Muslim immigrants and ‘refugees’? Why have you nothing to say about the antisocial behaviour of too many Muslims in Australia? Why have you nothing to say about people like Keysar Trad – if you want to throw around dramatic phrases like ‘full of hate’ why not look in the direction of SW Sydney? Or look at Trad’s idiot wife who trolled around Sydney in search of Australian ‘racism’ against women in burkhas – strange, she didn’t find it, obviously she neglected to look at herself.

You are correct on one thing – I do not find anything positive to say about Islam. How about using your superior knowledge and educating us on this topic? Tell us the positives of Islam. Tell us the benefits brought to Australia by Muslims. The floor is yours.

“ it isn't against the law to harbour hatred ..’ If it were, Muslims like Trad who have made so many offensive comments about Australia and Australians would be locked up, wouldn’t they?

‘ venom and hatred’ huh? I didn’t understand the true meaning of those terms until I began following the Arab media and listening to the outpourings of people like Bashir and the hate-mongers of Saudi Arabia - but lets not leave Australia out:

"The criminal dregs of white society colonised this country, and now, they only take the select choice of other societies, and the descendants of these criminal dregs tell us that they are better than us. And because we are not elitists, we tolerate them” – Keysar Trad, Muslim ‘spokesman’

If so many Australians dislike, or are wary, of Muslims, perhaps you should ask yourself why

If the majority of citizens of Indonesia have such a distrust of Basher, why do they entrust their precious sons to his tender care?
Or do they not mind if he brainwashes their offspring into becoming suicide bombers who do their worst among innocent people?
Why ,if he is regarded so badly, was he welcomed with such rapture?
And why do you wonder that muslims are so distrusted and viewed with absolute distaste?

Mickijo - Irf knows quite well why Muslims are so distrusted, but its easier to rant and rave than address the problem. Easier to accuse critics of being 'full of hate'. Easier to make snide little sanctimonious remarks hoping that we 'racists' never lose control of our hate-filled selves and start attacking Muslims. Dishing out insults is far easier than seriously examining the legitimate concerns about Islam and Muslim immigration. Poor victimised Muslims - What a joke. If I had a dollar for every Australian who has been:

* robbed at knifepoint/gunpoint by MOMEAS

* raped by MOMEAS

* insulted and threatened by MOMEAS

* forced off the road by MOMEAS

Well - I'd be a rich person wouldnt I. And let's not mention the 22 driveby shootings in Sydney so far this year (carried out by Lebenese Muslims) - in case it messes up Irf's 'poor Muslim victim' scenario.