BD, "The debate about Islam is not about 'Muslims'. Just as the debate about Christianity should not be about 'Christians'. In both cases it should be about fundamentals/doctrines etc."

That is not how a lot of us see the issue but rather how the faiths are put into practice by followers. So called fundamentals/doctrines seem to be massively open to interpretation. People of all the major religions (and non religions) seem to be capable of being on either side of the "good/bad" divide and justify their behavior based on the doctrines of their faith.

In the case of the debates on these threads we see christains busy digging through Islamic texts (or lists that somebody else has compiled more likely) for verses which show the bloodthirsty nature of Islam and when confronted with examples from the bible and christain history quickly dismissing them. We have muslims who see their religion as a religion of peace who express their disgust at those who choose to use it for war.

I think that it is mostly about basic personality and the values the person has been raised with rather than the tenants of the faith involved.

Irfan, I don't think that the christains have been subjected to the same level of villification or unfairness in attacks that muslims have been subjected to on these threads - rather that the moderators do not seem to be using double standards in dealing with what does occur.

R0bert

David Boaz, I try and find something as barbaric as nailing an innocent, peaceful man to a cross and torturing him for several days but fail dismally.

Then I look at Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay, Bagram airbase prison, and I know that those good people who call themselves christian are the same as those who murdered your Jesus.

If all muslim people were raving fundamentalist killers there would be no people left on earth.

Irfan – I have never claimed that all Muslims are terrorists. Nor have I accused all Muslims of being ‘psychopathic murderers’. In reply to your query – of course I have met Muslims. Everyone in the Australian workforce has probably worked with Muslims, and no doubt liked some and disliked others. These are personal feelings.

Very few people believe that every single Muslim is a terrorist – but how do you distinguish the would be or the sympathizer from the others? Answer: you cannot. Whenever a Muslim is arrested for terrorism, family, friends and work colleagues express disbelief, shock etc. If those who are closest don’t suspect, then how are governments to determine those who are a danger to us? Especially since many were actually born in the countries whose citizens they wish to murder.

So please tell me, Irf – why should any Western country take the chance of importing people like Lodhi or the Canadian-born Muslims caught in Toronto? Some Muslims have integrated into Australian life – this does not change the basic premise that large scale immigration from Islamic countries is suicidal and definitely not in the interests of any Western country.

One only need look at Europe – Threats of beheading anyone who criticizes Islam, (remember Theo van Gogh? Remember the Mohammed cartoons?) burning and killing non-Muslims, raping women – who needs it? Why on earth would any country in its right mind wish to import more of this insanity? Research the Muslim crime rate in Europe, it is absolutely staggering. Same with the Muslim birthrate. And Australia will go down the same road if we accept large numbers of Muslims.

I regret that no positives come to my mind regarding Islam so perhaps you can provide some. Not examples of Muslims who have good jobs or who are good people but positives about Islam per se.

Rabid 'clerics' preach hate to Muslim communities in Australia and hate literature is on sale in Islamic bookshops, but you dont appear to understand why this would make Australians distrustful of Muslims. Why is that?

Questions for Marilyn:

"..who call themselves christian are the same as those who murdered your Jesus."

This does not make any sense whatsoever. Jesus was crucified at the order of the Roman governor, Pontius Pilate and the sentence was carried out by Roman soldiers. His arrest was orchestrated by the Jewish priesthood of the time, who were afraid that He would gain too much power among the common people. How does this compare in any way to US detention of captured terrorists? And what is your suggestion? Release them, so they can return to their terrorist groups and kill more Westerners? Or are they all innocent little lambs who would never dream of beheading anyone?

“If all muslim people were raving fundamentalist killers ...”.

Nobody here said that all Muslims are killers, obviously they are not – but we should be very concerned about those who are. However, I expect you will even find an excuse for the pigs who did this:

BAGHDAD, Iraq Jun 20, 2006 (AP)— 'The bodies of two U.S. soldiers reported captured last week have been recovered, and an Iraqi official said Tuesday the men were "killed in a barbaric way." The U.S. military said the remains were believed to be those of Pfc. Kristian Menchaca, 23, of Houston, and Pfc. Thomas L. Tucker, 25, of Madras, Ore.'

'Al-Qaida in Iraq claimed responsibility for killing the soldiers, and said the successor to slain terror leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi had "slaughtered" them, according to a Web statement that could not be authenticated. The language in the statement suggested the men had been beheaded.'

However, its nice to note the capture of Zarwawi's address book has led to over 500 more raids - so many that there are not enough U.S. troops to handle them, and over 30% have been carried out by Iraqi troops or police. Nearly 1000 terrorist suspects have been killed or captured. The amount of information captured has overwhelmed intelligence organizations in Iraq, and more translators and analysts are assisting, via satellite link, from the United States and other locations.

"Nearly 1000 terrorist suspects have been killed or captured"

Hope Jesus live today and raising those dead bodies for a while to question them for what 9/11 reasons they should be suspected, or should be killed.

Jelata,

Newsflash for you - Jesus IS alive today - maybe if you knew that you would have given your life to him instead of following a dead prophet. eh?

I am also glad that when it came to bringing people from the dead you resort to the real God Jesus and not your god or his messenger.

Tell us what is the difference between a true muslim who follows the Qur'an and a terrorist who follows the same Qur'an?

Why is it that one applies the terrorist teaching of the Qur'an and the other only recites the good ayats?

RObert,

It's time you grew up and understand what the real issues are with islam. You are way out of your depth when it comes to evaluating the threat of Islam to a non-muslim country. So stop pretending to play the moderator here when by your own admission you are a non-believer in God our creator. This is like expecting a plumber to oversee a brain surgery?

Islam loves people like yourself on whom they can just trample on all the way to Canberra. Maybe then you will realise who your true saviour is.