Dee, murdering people is always evil wether you use knifes or missiles. But then Iraqis' atrocities toward the captives is a crime that is result of anothers crime: bombarding them and their families. If US soldiers were using knifes to strike iraqis then perhaps it would be more civilized, at least it would not cost children lifes.

About the news about muslim terrorist you quote, please dont believe to any news before you do a bit research before. I do live among muslims that you would call them terrorist but Islam prohibit killing women and children even in battle and they will like usual will follow the code strictly.

For example about 9/11 tragedy. Im not a conspiracy theorist but as an engineer I'm near sure the collapse of WTC's are the result of controlled demolitions. So we must put all the explanations into question, not just believe what we want to believe. Read my friend, read from many sides of arguments you could be a wise inhabitant of this poor earth.

About Muhammad history, relax friend I'm always best informed. I'm a moderate muslim who are able to criticise the version of Islam tought to me by the tradition.

If you someday are well informed about Islam at least you will hold a level of view similar to Karen Amstrong, or at least like Clifford Geertz, or hopefully like Franz Magnis Suseno, they are no amateurs, they are orientalists. But dont fell into Snouck Horgronye, he is a mean of imperialism.

@Coach, I never said the Pope was the son of God, I said that catholics consider him God's representative. Of course I don't think they should ban the Bible. Nor should they ban the Q'aran. Thanx for considering a radical idea. I think true Christians in the Jesus movement include peace activist Cindy Sheehan, and the Christians Against All Terrorism (Quakers) who are being charged for raiding Pine Gap: their illegal photos and reports can be found on www.pinegap6.org They will face a 7 year jail term in a sentence due in Alice Springs in August for breaching national security. Australia will be locking up Christian Quaker matyrs, who are defending peace, against the occupation in Iraq. Now those are in the real Jesus movement. Bless them, I really think they are like saints. They are doing what Jesus would do against our Pontius Pilate PM. They are making peace, the military is fighting peace.

We have inspiring Australian Islamic peace activists too. Far example Joumanah El Matrah, Dr Salam Ismael, Roya Sahraei and the Mayor of the Moreland City Council in Victoria. They are all against terrorism, and simply want peace. Even the Australian union movement has adopted Islam under their protection, and the Australian Government could expect bans on supplies to the occupations, especially from the Australian Maritimes Union.

We have good people in Australia, and even in the US I have repeated this many times. It is just that we have very bad leaders, and we get the blame. I agree, I think the WTC was a demolition plan between the Bin Ladens and the Bush's. The Bin Laden family got the contract to build the new tower on the graves of the victims. I cried like a baby when those towers came down, I used to spend time there and I loved the place. I didn't sleep for weeks worrying about what will happen next.

Maybe these were the contracts they had when they were so hastily flown out of the US, shortly after the 9/11 towers fell. All is not what it seems.

Irfan,

Nice try - I know very well that the Qur'an is freely available - my very point was in response to your suggestion to dee (above) : SHOULD the Qur'an ba banned...?

You skilfully (as a good lawyer) picked my last point and twisted it to your advantage.

All a conspiracy in my head? Oh no Irfan I don't think so.

In view of the latest statements by the unrepentant Bali terrorist Abu-bakr Bashir ... and his unbashful references to the Qur'anic texts... here's my post again for all concerned Australians to read:

1. Banning the Qur'an will not eliminate the terrorist problem. Since most good muslims are encouraged to memorise the whole book without a second thought about its meaning anyway.

2. By banning the Qur'an - which is primarily the terrorist's manual by excellence - it would only give it more religious substance than it actually deserves.

3. Instead may I suggest that the "holy" book be made compulsory reading for all our federal politicians - who I suspect have never done so - and then let's see if they still believe it has a place in our society. Let's put our elected to the test.

4. If they are still unsure that the book is not a direct threat to our democracy and freedoms - they should call a referendum.

5. Until the Qur'an is publicly scrutinised - like the bible has - it will remain a godly-inspired book in the mind of the uninformed general public - especially muslims who never dare to question its origins or teachings.

6. Let’s do everyone a favour – what have you got to hide Irfan? Put your book where your mouth is. Let’s ask Australians if the book should be freely available after they all read it

Jelata says :

>>Im not a conspiracy theorist but as an engineer I'm near sure the collapse of WTC's are the result of controlled demolitions.<<

So what is the reason for that "demolition" Mr Engineer? And who in your opinion was behind it?

BTW - An Israel Defense Forces intelligence officer has confirmed that the explosion that killed eight Palestinians on a beach on Friday, was caused by a stockpile of Hamas explosives.

So Mr moderate muslim are we to believe that all islamic terrorist attacks are a fictitious illusion?

While you are at it can you explain to us why the Qur'an is anti Jewish - and why does Hamas want to eliminate Israel in the name of Allah and his holy book? Or is that another conspiracy perhaps?

What is your definition of "moderate muslim" ? Do you disagree with some of the radical teachings of your god Allah? If he commends you to kill non-muslims in dar-el-harb would you say NO to your god?

Enlighten us please.

coach writes ...

"All a conspiracy in my head? Oh no Irfan I don't think so. In view of the latest statements by the unrepentant Bali terrorist Abu-bakr Bashir ..."

coach, the conspiracy is in your head. You simply cannot prove that every single Muslim has even heard of Abubakar Bashir, let alone agrees with him.

If serious readers are to accept your conspiratorial rants as real, the onus is on you to prove beyond reasonable doubt that every single Muslim across the planet (or at least in our region) agrees with the rants of Bashir.

That means you must interview every single Muslim and ask specific questions about his/her attitude toward non-Muslims. Are you prepared to carry out this research?

Perhaps the reason you love citing Bashir so much is because you find his approach attractive. In fact, your views about Muslims mirror his views about non-Muslims.

Basically what I am saying, coach, is that you are an aussie and nominally christian version of Bashir. Further, your rhetoric serves the purposes of Bashir, bin Ladin, Zarqawi and others of similar ilk.

These extremists want ordinary Muslims to believe they are just 2nd class citizens who are hated by their host countries. Your deep and virulent hatred for Muslims and their religion serves to confirm the claims of bin Ladin and Bashir.

But having travelled in 3 major Javanese cities and having met Indonesians of all faiths, I can attest to the fact that few Indonesians share Bashir's hatred. And having lived in Australia for 37 years, I can thank God Almighty most of us Aussies don't share your hatred.

dee writes ...

"You may wish to ponder how many innocent Westerners have been killed by Islamic terrorists while attending parties, eating lunch or working – or how about going to Bali on holidays only to be slaughtered by resident murdering religious fanatics? Let me assure you that tourists do not often run the risk of being murdered because of their religion in Australia."

Perhaps you didn't know that the people who had their car smashed at Cronulla were visitors from Bangladesh. And that the guy who got bashed on the train was an Aussie of Afghan heritage.

Also, dee, perhaps you should talk to Balinese. I met a Balinese chap a few weeks ago. He told me that the bulk of those dead in all Bali bombings were Indonesians, both Hindu and Muslim.

dee, if you hate Muslims and Middle Easterners so much, you might wish to find a new saviour. Because my Messiah Jesus Christ was of Middle Eastern appearance. And people with your kinds of attitudes would have assaulted him and his mother if they appeared on Cronulla beach in December.

dee, if you were a true Australian, you wouldn't be so full of hatred. The diggers at Gallipoli had more respect for their Turkish enemy than you have for your fellow Australians.