Re: the bombing of Al Zarqawi's place. Could someone tell us why the US Military bombed the place rather than go in and try and capture these terrorists? I think this needs to be cleared up because we wouldn't want people to be thinking that the Christian West condone the murder of innocent civilians to get at one terrorist?

We wouldn't want people to be thinking that Christian Bush was trying to make an example of what his military machine can do with a bit of terrorism of its own.

It may have been that the Zarqawi's place was loaded with explosives and the US didn't want the bad publicity of more US deaths in the raid. But then again thousands of good, young US lads and girls are being lured/conned to their deaths each day in USA and die in Iraq in other raids with hardly a mention. Bad PR.

Boaz so you're a Christian ? You say: "For the sake of the relatives of those who Zarkawi beheaded, they should have taken his, put it on a stake and displayed with a sign 'God is not mocked, We reap what we sow'". And you talk of barbarianism among other cultures. For God's sake shut the #@*& up. ( You wanna been careful wit dat spellin’ you mate Sorro call you “bloody idijt”.) (:

Boaz.

Ephesians Ch. 4, v. 6.

"One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

Note the word "all". If God is in you all, then the preparation for war, the killing of any person, especially the thousands of innocents that have been killed by the US invaders in Iraq is the killing of God Himself. To kill another is to kill that bit of God in that person. Every time a person turns to violence unnecessarily they turn against God. You can rationalise until you turn black in da' face but there is no two ways about it.

Further to Rancitas' last post. On a Nationalistic level, I once asked Boaz what the Kangaroo and Emu on Australian coat of arms symbolised. They symbolise never taking a backward step once cornered. Don't worry I didn't know either until an immigrant told me. He learnt at his citizenship thingy - hey Grasshopper). A kangaroo and emu will do as much as they can to avoid a fight but if you take it to them then they can’t go backwards. Australians used to hold that belief firmly.

Only in defence. Lest We Forget.

Irfan I have been reading the Koran lately and it is much more bellicose and aggressive than the Bible. No two ways about it.

I, for example, was trying to compare "He Frowned" SURA LXXX section with a similar section in the Bible, The Epistle of Paul to the Ephesians and frankly gave up on it.

I understand why the fundamentalists rely on boosting the threatening parts to secure obedience. To me it has a baseness and a political tone that puts me right off. Mind you I am not the flashest mailbox in the street.

No offence, but the Bible, I think, is a much richer, more authentic text. It seems to be mostly reaching out, rather than threatening. But remember I am just a born again pagan.
Koran:
"And the faces on that day with dust upon them:
Blackness shall cover them!
These are the infidels, the impure."

Rancitas is in deep shieet.

Bible:
"Let no man deceive you with vain word: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience."

Damn Rancitas still in deep shieet.

Having said that, the thing with the Christians is that, if you compare their behaviour with their text, certain Christians are just as violent and barbaric as those fundamentalists that read the Koran without consideration for the context of the various sections.

Some "Christians" clearly have the same barbaric mindset as terrorists and their propagandists. A friendly piece of pagan advice from the wicked sensitive a one. (:

Jelata – So atrocities committed by Iraqis are the result of the crimes of others? Innocent families in the West have also been slaughtered, yet I don’t recall the survivors committing atrocities against local Muslims. They somehow refrained from beheading and burning down mosques in revenge. If they had done so, I'm sure you would not give them a free pass for their actions on the same grounds you use to excuse Iraqis.

If Islam forbids killing women and children, why are so many Muslims doing it? What crime was committed by the Australians in Bali who were slaughtered? Oh, that’s right – they were ‘white’, they were enjoying themselves and of course, they were supposedly leading ‘good Muslims’ to drink alcohol. Same old excuses, same old rationalizations. Muslims are never responsible, they have no minds to decide issues for themselves, its always someone else’s fault.

We will agree to disagree on the subject of Mohammed’s spirituality.

Irf - you have cited a few non-Australians caught in the Cronulla riots (which were a first ever occurrence) – I refer to the hundreds of Westerners deliberately murdered in Bali; I am aware that Balinese were also killed, but Balinese are Hindus. Are we expected to believe that JI cared about killing non-Muslim Indonesians?

I am not ‘full of hatred’, I am simply, like many Australians, very very tired of arrogant Islamic immigrants and ‘refugees’ trying to force their religion and customs onto us and whining about ‘racism’ and ‘victimisation’ when we refuse to accept it. The attitude of the Muslim community was blazingly apparent when the Cronulla Task Force received a total of 8 phone calls regarding the thugs involved in revenge attacks – yet Australian parents involved insisted that their sons turn themselves into police. Quite a contrast.

And, no – I don’t need to assault anyone to get my point across. The over-representation of Muslims in prison and in the welfare system makes my point for me. 'Good Muslims' do not make up for the crime and violence brought to Australia via Islamic immigration.

Well said dee and hello all!

Irf, your co religionists are just not worth it mate. The amount of time and effort expended keeping them in check is astronomical. I did it for seven years in just one small section of Sydney in just one of our institutions, the NPWS. They were our biggest problem.

I've often wondered why you stick up for your religion as you do. You know that your co religionists cause trouble where ever they go. You seem like a somewhat intelligent and compassionate bloke and being raised as a mossie just doesn't account for it.

I think you've got some inheritance due some day and you have to keep up up appearances. Or, it could simply just be the fact that you don't want upset mum.

Anyway Irf, name me one minority in Australia that causes as much grief as your lot does.

I think Dee must have alzheimers. Attacks against Muslums in western countries are well documented and numerous. See for yourself:

http://www.aljazeerah.info/Special%20Reports/Pictures%20of%20Torture%20And%20Sexual%20Abuse%20of%20Iraqi%20Prisoners%20By%20US-UK%20Soldiers.htm
MANCHESTER, England, Sept 18: the Alvia mosque on Bromwich Street in Bolton, Greater Manchester
http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2001-09/19/article5.shtml
Toronto, Canada, June 04, 2006 the International Muslim Organization of Toronto
http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/002278.html
The US:
http://www.adl.org/terrorism_america/adl_responds.asp

Chicago: attacks on Arab Americans in the Greater Chicago area, including an assault on a gas station attendant perceived as Arab American, a Molotov cocktail thrown at the Arab Educational School.

Cleveland: A man drove his car through the front entrance of Ohio's largest mosque, The Islamic Center of Cleveland

Dallas: Denton, Texas an attempted firebombing on September 13 of the Islamic Society of Denton mosque.

Houston: At least one Islamic school in the Houston area was forced to remain closed.

San Francisco: a vicious attack on the local Islamic Center. The center's windows were smashed in the early morning hours of December 9, 2001

@coach, all Government members reading the Qu'ran is overkill. The Foreign Affairs Minister and Immigration Minister would suffice.

@Boaz, Jeleta and Rancitas, did you see this site: http://www.compfused.com/directlink/3587

Do you agree there is something immoral about the way they bombed Zarqawi's neighbouhood?

Further, @ Jeleta and Rancitas, the Islamic people I mentioned before, I understand, are now Australian citizens, I think makes them Australian. The Islamic Mayor of Moreland City Council now swears in other new Australian citizens. There is no us and them...

It will take time to clue us all together with multiculturalism. Too many bombs and too many lies.

Dee and Coach, yes, what seem in the surfaces may differ to the real realities. It is just a basic wisdom, like the teaching "the tao that could be experienced is not the real tao", "who ever desireless will see the essence" and etc-etc.

I could tell the story that bombings in indonesia that cost the live of many australians, actually inconsistent with the strategy of radical muslims in indonesia, and still questionable for being orchestrated by them, but I'm no capable in enlighting others when their prejudice are still clouding their minds.

Seems religious issues remains sensitive for people both in the east and west. I hope the day come when finally people believe in "many peaces", that is nobody think it is necessary to wipe other's version of peace to bring this world into more peaceful planet. And no body could deliberately ignites sentiment between religious groups.

Religius fanaticism of any religion are dangerous for any societies but then we the conscious must help our closest people towards healthy understandings to their religions.

And also necessary to take wholistic approach not only using religions as the only equation. As for Indonesia, to those who are interested to a bit detailed explanation on its religious issues, read this writing from a Catholic priest:

http://www.sedos.org/english/Suseno.htm