Nick,

Thanks for sharing that Downer isn't the leader of the party ... Are you a political advisor?...lol

The point I was making (that you appear to have missed) is that senior party politicians are usually associated with factions and therefore can influence things at a branch level. I don't know how formalised they are in the Liberal party... they are more secretive than Labor. I suspect they sometimes just pick up the phone and say things to the right people in the right places. Amazingly simple really!

Johnny always gets others to do his work for him. So who would know if Johnny was pulling strings behind the scenes against Mr Georgiou?... Johnny always gets his way and always appears at arms length. Think about it! Petro Georgiou was advising Johnny and the boys also... I guess it was advice that had principles attached to it so that makes Petro a danger. We can't have principles in politics ... it will cloud decision making.lol

Um I think that listening to the people is actually what politics is about... and you don't necessarily need a strong leader (although it helps)... an honest one would be nice for a change. Is Johnny Howard honest?

He never takes a principled stand because he doesn't seem to know what a principle is. As I said earlier there was to be no GST on education but he put it on everything that surrounds education... everything a child uses to become educated. Yep that's honesty for you.

With Howard the devil is always in the detail and he never gives enough detail... Regime Change wasn't the aim of the war... dey had dem der weapons of mass destruction Georgy told me.... OOps no dey aint... still we got rid of Hussein... but regime wasn't part of the plan... plus how was I to know of the kickbacks... I'm only the PM don't I pay people not to tell me stuff?...lol

Howard has overused the plausible deniabilty line.

Is political blindess catchy?

Yes, its quite obvious that Labor (not to be confused with the Left) is starring into the abyss of an ideological crisis.

On one hand it cannot retreat and use its traditional socialist armoury - and on the other is cannot be seen to espouse conservative (Right wing) ideological frameworks.

In this crisis the centrists will always win and the factions they control. Howard has been able to milk this uncertainty and crisis well, Labor continues to deny that this is the reason they are haemorrhaging.

However, Nick Ferret is right call for leadership that grabs this centrist crisis by the scruff of the neck - but this will also require a person who can also inspire the imagination of voters from both the left and the right. Anyone can do the 'I'm boss- shutup and sit down' push, but it will need to be coupled with a vision that is ideologically supported.

I see no chance of this happening before the Fed election in 2007.

The bomber will get his three out of three hat trick.

Joy I have become midle class! tristian as one of 16 kids I know hunger and understand the very poor.
No goverment will ever be elected that wants to be robin hood.
Centerism is the only path voters will follow its not an illness its an answer.
Those who do not want a Howard goverment surely understand only the ALP can stop it.
And those who waste votes or voted for Howard must execpt the part they played in electing him.
A Labor goverment will take the fear out of industrial relations,but would struggle to even hold seats if it again takes the wrong policys to an election.
compare Tony Bliars England to Howards Australia, now imagine another Latham result, frightens me.

Opinionated 2,
I quite like your first post idea of Gillard leader, Rudd deputy, these two fresh faces would bring fresh ideas badly needed if Labor wants to again become a force. Between the they must "drag" Labour back to the cenreground, and provide a reasonable choice for voters.

If they are not prepared to do this then they will remain Australia's largest "pressure group" without winning government. I agree big Kim must go for the good of his party, he is a two time loser, with an approval rating of 18%, surely the Labor Party can see the writing on the wall.

The electorate dislike Howard immensly but do not want Beazley, he has been a good Minister in the past, that is where his role is now, in the past.

SHONGA,

During the GST election Labor actually believed that just bagging the GST would get it over the line. They offered no alternate plan that would broaden the tax base. I think that they forgot that the first person to put forward the GST into the public arena was Keating.

They were dumb founded that they lost.

Kim and the Labor Party are making the same mistake again. Last election they gambled on Latham and lost. Latham had too much baggage.

Kim has too much baggage. He was there during the Keating years. He has lost two elections.

Julia Gillard and Kevin Rudd would make a great team. Obviously we would have to see their policies and strategies before we got too excited but they would bring a freshness to a fairly stale party.

I cannot understand how a party like Labor can't see that they are fighting a losing battle with Kim at the helm. Are strategists in that short a supply or are they still relying on the ones that they have used in the past. Um they haven't brought success!

It is time to clean the decks and get a team that will take them into the future. If I was Beazley's advisor I would tell him to resign the opposition post now and his seat prior to the next election timed so as not to cause a bi-election. Not that they should be scared of a bi-election but it would be a graceful way out without costing the taxpayer any more for the bi-election.

Of course the problem with Labor are there are probably others who crave the job. Labor men especially have a "I wanna be king" mentality and they forget who would best serve the Australian people... and then their party. The Aussie people must always come first!

Maybe they will surprise us and they will think of this plan....lol

Having read the lively correspondence on the Labour Party factions,
I find that I have not a clear idea of what factions are in play,
and what are their objectives,and whose interests do they serve
Please explain.
Gulliver