A question for Benjamin, Can you tell me why members of a certain God Club are continueing to spread false information about Muslims? the reason I ask is, those who you bastardize are not returning insults aimed towards your God Club, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, you react when Muslims respond to being bastardized, maybe you can tell us why the majority of owners who owned those Newspapers all 128 of them who published the cartoons of Mohammed, all belong to the same God Club, so who are the real bastards, It is said, "what goes around comes around" it may be only a matter of time before the boot is on someone elses foot, think about that, the seeds of racial/religious hatred you sow will grow into a monster that will turn on you ,

Hi Scout,

I actually like the article and I can relate to the following statement:
"Dr. Sultan bitterly criticized the Muslim clerics, holy warriors and political leaders who she believes have distorted the teachings of Muhammad and the Koran for 14 centuries"

Thats exactly what many Muslims and Islamic reformists think and promote.

Mangotree01,

Excellent comment. I find it unethical and illegal for some paranoid characters on these forums to promote violence against Muslims.
I guess its only me who is seeing things.

Fellow Human

You are not the only one who notices the promotion of hate against Islam - I'm not so sure about violence, but the level of vilification that the anti-Islam brigade get away with is alarming.

The best way to combat it is to use the 'delete' facility at the bottom of each post. If enough of us complain then action will most certainly be taken. However, it is a bit of a game. For example, if a poster generalises and doesn't name specific posters then they will get away with it. Hence Numbat and his 'pagan religion' comments - he is careful not to accuse anyone directly, eg 'I blame your evil religion not you'.

So don't let the detractors deter you - I'm not. In fact an advantage of reading these diatribes assists me in defining my own beliefs and honing my skills. I have learnt when to bother with a response and when to let the offensive poster hang him or herself on their own vile words.

The ranters are certainly proving the validity of the 'fear factor' being used to promote bigotry.

PS

I am pleased that you read the article about Dr. Wafa Sultan - I am aware that there are many Muslims and former Muslims trying to bring Islam into balance with the 21st century.

Paraphrasing Voltaire: I am not religious but I will defend to the death a persons right to their beliefs - as long as they respect mine. I know I have attached a condition, however having received a lot of abuse on this forum feel compelled to add one.

Cheers

Scout: Unfortunately I don't have registration for the NY Times, but remember seeing an interview with her online somewhere. I agree, she is a brave and spirited woman.

For me, I already come from a 'secular' background and have chosen Islam instead, whereas she is the other way around. That does not mean that specific ideals she discusses are incompatible, however. Just because Islam uses different 'sources' does not mean that it is automatically opposed to the goals of the secular-humanist tradition. I don't see why they cannot work towards mutual goals.

I would be interested to read any of her work, if it is published and actually substantiative instead of cheap japs and ramblings like many "ex-Muslim" stuff is these days. I am currently studying things from within the Islamic tradition, and those I read/study currently also fall firmly within that camp, though do this through access to the classical sources, works of past scholars and classical methodologies of exegesis. They are also firmly rooted in Western thought and such too.

It's very interesting to see views across the board, including those here at OLO.

Politics is politics but reality bits anyway:

Emirates Aided Kin of Palestinian Militants
By JULIA PRESTON

In the last four years the United Arab Emirates has provided substantial financial support, through its Red Crescent Society, to families of Palestinians, militants as well as civilians, who have been wounded or killed by Israeli forces, according to Red Crescent documents.
The United Arab Emirates is a federation of seven small states including Dubai, where a government-owned company was due to take over some American port operations. Facing intense Congressional opposition, the company said recently that it would sell its operations in the United States to an unrelated American company within six months. ….

Source:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/20/international/middleeast/20emirates.html?_r=3&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

We've seen similar debate on other forums, whereby anecdotal evidence, quoting extreme views (from a religious text or outspoken political figure), and name slinging seems to be all the evidence we need to form opinions of social trends and thereby condemn a segment of our population, and the argument was just as fruitless- http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=148
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=3999

At least Thor made an attempt at statistical evidence (though the link was dead).

Undeniably, some incidents of violence that are reported as perpetrated by Muslims, are disturbing. I was disgusted to see the cheering in the streets of Iran in reaction to the September 11 attacks. Additionally, it does not help any debate to throw around terms such as “Nazi”, “Racist”, or “Bleedinghearts”

The article's main point, that reports of crime in Australia are being tied to Muslim populations for political or popularist reasons, is essentially the view of the Anti Discrimination Board, who have found that since we have been getting our “sexed up” articles, discrimination against Muslims has increased dramatically-http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/adb/ll_adb.nsf/pages/adb_raceheadlines .

A more accessible, though less rigorous report on this is-http://www.brisinst.org.au/resources/brisbane_institute_kabir_moore_muslim.html

The problem in searching for the connection between Islam and crime, is that crime statistics are virtually non-existent on the race/religion/birthplace/ethnicity of perpetrators.

However, the statistics we do have don’t show this connection; crime is an activity in all communities that is performed by a small minority of people-http://www.omi.wa.gov.au/publications/seminar/Ethnic%20Minorities%20and%20Crime%20in%20Australia.pdf

One can pick and choose statistics as easily as media reports, but-

1)Sexual assaults are mostly committed by people known to the victim, and occur in higher rates in country regions compared to the city.
http://www.aph.gov.au/library/INTGUIDE/SP/ViolenceAgainstWomen.htm

2)“Over the 24 months to December 2001, trends in recorded crime in Cabramatta for all major violent
and property offence categories were either downward or stable.”- NSW Bureau of Crime
Statistics and Research
http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/bocsar/ll_bocsar.nsf/vwFiles/cjb70.pdf/$file/cjb70.pdf

3)From 2000-2001- assaults increased most in- Wollongong, South Sydney, Campbeltown, Wagga Wagga, and Lake Macquarie (measured in 100s of incidents). The list is for increased number of incidents, not increased rate- from the numbers on the lists, the increased rates are highest in country areas; Wagga Wagga, Wyong, Goulburn, and Griffith.
http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/bocsar/ll_bocsar.nsf/vwFiles/cjb67.pdf/$file/cjb67.pdf