Hi Fellow Human

Of course Israel is a political issue although I tend also to see it as a human rights issue. I fully agree with your assessment of the occupation and it's implications. The wisest Israeli leader will be the one who abandons the Israeli settlements or dismantles them.

However your original statement was:

'Muslims are not allowed to call for invasion of other nations (whether Muslims or non-Muslims) since the Quran rejects transgression.'

Your rationalisation suggests that for Muslims political action is exempt from Islam's peaceful tenets and nature.

In support of Realist

To: those who fling vitriol and hate at others in order to "prove" the superiority of particular religions, quote the OT and the gospels ad nauseum,and use Jesus Christ (or in some cases Christ Jesus) as a jousting stick.

I have seen others write that the instant they see one of these religious rants they skip the post. So do I, so you gain nothing.

Attacking the poster rather than the ideas presented in the original article is bullying of the lowest order. Indulging in a "mine is better than yours" slanging match is just plain childish. Sinking to the depths of foul language and personal insult says some very unpleasant things about you, not about the object of your venom.

Hi Keith,

"Your rationalisation suggests that for Muslims political action is exempt from Islam's peaceful tenets and nature"

Thats exactly my point. Islam in essence is based on Judaism and Moses commandments. I grew up in Egypt and world, politics and religions history was a must in my school. There was never reference anything "Anti-Jewish' in Egyptian history (or religious history before 1948.

Early 1900 and late 1800 most of the well know Egyptian writers, thinkers, artists, activists were in fact Jews (Jacoub Sannouh for example). Many Egyptians of both Jewish and Christian faith fought against the British in the 1919 revolution of independence (History shows that Priests, Rabbis and Imams exchanged speeches in Mosques, Churches and Synagogues).

The largest retail stores in Egypt until today (since nationalised by Nasser) are still named after their Egyptian Jewish founders until today (Sidnaoui, Cicurel, etc..).

This whole “Anti-Jewish” Islamic movements had no religious basis but have political basis (post 1948). Even the political basis is falling apart as last year I was holidays and the Israeli decision to pull out of Gazza was very well received by Arabs countries and local newspapers. The more Israelis will do to fast track Palestinians control/ state over their territories both the political and religious argument of ‘anti-Jews’ will eventually fall apart.

Zionism helped establishing Israel at its early foundation and over time but in my view its time to re-assess its benefits. It seems to have grown out of control and could be on a collision course with Israel’s security and benefits on the long term.

FELLOW HUMAN

It's not MY belief that the thugs pray in mosques, it is factual information. An SBS crew that went to LAKEMBA (the main mosque) after the gang rape trials to get their thoughts about it.

Guess what happened? They were, as usual, BASHED. But before this, they got some great evidence of Muslim racism. They asked about what they thought of the girls, and one guy yells out "those girls were all sluts anyway" and everyone burst out in laughter.

And this is a religious place?

Worse. Some of the thugs are CLERICS. Where have you been Fellow Human? A Madrassa in Pakistan learning that it was really Arabs that gave all the tsunami aid and those evil westerners didnt?

Sheik Feiz - "All unveiled women deserve to be raped" comment? Didn't hear that? This same comment has occured from IMAMS, clerics, all over the Muslim world, although we only hear about it when it happens in a western nation. the actual MUFTI of Denmark said the same not long before FEIZ did.

I will forgive you of your ignorance, but yes, there is countless evidence that the THUGS are mosque-goers.

After Cronulla, the THUGS met up where? Lakemba mosque. One Muslim put it PERFECTLY when he said on 4 Corners the other night that "They weren't thugs that went to the mosque. It was everyone, students, professionals, everyone".

Couldn't have said it better myself.

IRFAN

Give me an example of a racially mixed Muslim couple where the woman is allowed to remain non-Muslim.

Most racially mixed couples I've seen involve a white. Do you deny research by Dr.Birrell from Monash UNI that Muslims hardly marry outsiders, that 75% of Lebanese males go back to LEBANON to find a wife? Are you serious that this isn't xenophobic?

How non-Muslims are turned away from the rock pools at Cronulla beach while burqa clad women swim, as it would make such women impure to share water with infidels?

How groups of young males form gangs based solely on ethnicity, and racially target others for sexual harassment, rapes, and bashings?

FELLOW HUMAN

I read that you grew up in Egypt and that you found no evidence of anti-semitism.

I would suggest, after reading about scores of Egyptians who have said the opposite - that they grew up being told to hate Jews, Christians (have you never heard of the suffering of the Copts?) and westerners in general.

Is your message true, or are all these people liars? Perhaps you grew up in a really westernised, wealthy part?

Anyway, there is much evidence of anti-semitism. Not only do I suggest going online to the various sites, MEMRI's a good one, that deal specifically with racism & intolerance from Muslims, but speak to some Christians from your home country.

Do you really not know how poorly they are treated? It sounds astonishing that's all.

I don't know whether you're Muslim but I may have an explanation if you are - about why you don't know.

Brainwashing.

I'd encourage everybody to read widely about the treatment of Christians in Muslim nations. As a non-religious person I get annoyed that nobody seems to care about how intolerant Muslims are in their own nations towards Christians. There is not even one nation where Christians are treated equally (except Turkey sorry) and this is even disturbing the Pope, who hopefully will pressure the west to act.

After the Pakistani earthquake, Christians were turned out of their homes to make way for homeless Muslims.

After the cartoon stoush, where Muslims worldwide showed that THEY judge an ENTIRE CULTURE based on drawings by a few people, a Turkish priest was killed by a Muslim angry about the cartoons.

What about the Simpsons? The Arab audience is so RACIST they have removed Krusty the Clown, Apu the Hindu, Rev. Lovejoy and won't show Homer drinking beer or eating pork.

Is it really only a few Muslims who are intolerant? How many phone calls have the police recieved regarding Cronulla reprisal attacks?

THIS IS WHAT WE JUDGE MUSLIMS ON, NOT THE COMMENTS OF ONE CLERIC.

Can we not get back to the article? Salam is asking that she not be judged as being a nutbag, simply because of her religion and the colour of her skin. Seems fair enough.

No one looks at me and wonders my intentions and assumes I am evil despite the fact that my surname is similar to that of Hitler, that my skin is the same colour as that of Martin Bryant and Timothy McVeigh, that some of my relatives were born overseas.

Surely Salam and her friends and family are entitled to be judged as themselves not as 'people belonging to just that group'. Surely we are mature enough people to be able to separate the stupidity of certain INDIVIDUALS who happen to be muslim from the majority.

To continually go on about how "moderate muslims MUST DENOUCE" the stupidity of some individuals is narrow-minded. Why should Salam have to be out there denoucing the views of people who happen to share her religion or racial background if we do not ask the same of myself and my friends and family re McVeigh and Bryant and Hitler and Stalin? Or even President Bush and some of his stupid "Crusades" comments? The entire white population of the world is not tarred with that brush, why should Salam be tarred with that of a couple of nutbags?