"they would notice you chose One Nation..." hahahahaaha. Another Aziliz classic. You were preaching the importance of my supposed "CDP vote" to the major parties policies. Now you've realised that my initial vote is what matters? If the Govt wants to know who I voted for and what policies I voted on, the GVT where my vote eventually ends up to is completely irrlevant as I DID NOT CHOOSE THAT. And dont refute with but thats where your vote goes, as this changes every election and once again is completely irrelvant to policy building based on what people voted for (and want).

Yes you did imply family first were pro war...any attempt to now backflip on this is just...

You didn't state you were a student and now I believe that you can't have a tertiary education if all you end up doing is resorting to childish name calling and contradict yourself as many times as you have. I may not agree with half my lefty friends back in my uni days, but at least they had some ability to debate.

And yes I did quote labours website heres the link yet again:

http://www.alp.org.au/download/sp_sydney_institute_4_aug_05.pdf

Read it and learn little one. Labour are PRO BUSH. They claim to be ANTI WAR but when your PRO BUSH it is quite a condraction to preach ANTI WAR dont you think? I have already stated at least 5 times that Labour were merely preaching ANTI WAR in iraq for good old liberal bashing / fence sitting reasons, if you lack the ability to comprehend this simple concept then I pitty you. So tell me why did you vote for PRO BUSH / 6 blueprints to run an entire country?

So when democrates pref CDP they are a "party with policies" and not PRO WAR, but when I vote for an independant that prefs democrates before CDP but CDP before other major parties, I am pro WAR? Interesting and very logical.

Where are you going with all this Aziliz, dont you believe its best to quit while you are behind before embarrasing yourself further?

So because you can't remember who you voted for you thought it was okay to say you voted Group A until I told you who Group A was. You probably didn't know who Group A was at the time either. You certainly can't spell Etteridge.

You don't vote on policies by your own admission you only vote on how big the party is so if they're into eating babies you don't mind. You have actually said you are glad your vote went to CDP before Liberal or Labour. It doesn't bother you in the slightest they're more pro-war than either of those parties. The war is not the issue for you.

You don't even like the Democrats--why do you care your vote may have transferred through them on its way to CDP.

I don't shy away from who I voted for. I voted below the line and so I distributed my preferences myself. You don't seem to understand that, bit too hard for you?

All legislation has to pass through both houses. You really don't understand that either.

There's a lot you just don't understand.

Major parties, minor parties. There you go again. You don't care about policies.

Once again you are into I can't think two things are important at the same time. I say again for the stupid--your first vote counts and your final vote counts--the position of every preference counts. ALL of them. There is no contradiction in that. The first reflects who you want the most and where you vote goes shows who you prefer out of the last two left in the counting.

I implied nothing about Family First being pro the invasion. Your little fantasy without any evidence.

I didn't mean you hadn't quoted Labour's website but that you side step the issue at hand--namely the war in Iraq. You completely ignore the fact that Labour was anti the invasion and that they also want the troops home.

It's not which party completely reflects your beliefs but which one makes a stand on the most important issue/s that counts. Liberal want the war, so does CDP, Labour DOES NOT. If you won't vote for Labour because of their attitude to 'terrorism' how laughable is that when CDP is the party you prefer to be in power--when they are even more extreme on terrorism. And Bush is PRO LIBERAL--you know he spoke out AGAINST voting for labour and for voting liberal before the elections--once again you keep ignoring anything that "really" contradicts you. (Not like your pretence that I contradict myself).

When democrats send their preferences to the wrong party I don't have to. But you sent your preferences to CDP. I didn't approve of what the Democrats did. I am really cross with them about it. But I (you know me, Aziliz) I did not allocate my preferences to CDP like you did, my preference went to Greens.

The only thing embarrassing about this 'debate' is that I am wasting my time on a total moron who doesn't read the posts properly, is really weak in comprehension and can barely string a sentence together.

You think if you make things up and are stubborn you win. So win. I don't want to waste my time any more placing irrefutable facts in front of a moron.

"So because you can't remember who..." All the independants have chosen Democrates before CDP in the context of this debate it makes little difference which Group I use as an example seeing as there preferences (which seems to be all you seem to care about) are roughly the same. Dont try to sidestep the issue youve been preaching for the past 10 posts becaues you realise you destroyed your own argument with all these "irrefutable facts".

"You don't vote on policies by your own admission". That was never my admission, I DID NOT VOTE IN THE UPPER HOUSE based on policies, in the lower houes I chose NOT to VOTE as I dont agree with the major parties FORGIEN POLICY, both of which are PRO BUSH. It has nothing to do with the size of the party little one and suggesting so just shows once again how stupid you think people observing this thread (if any) truely are. I know it's dissapointing to realise that your not the pinacle of intellegence, get used to it.

"glad your vote went to CDP" hahahahaha. Please quote me stating that I was happy my independants (not mine) prefence went to CDP after the 250th count? I never once said I was happy CDP got their preference, what I was happy about is that all the major parties that I did NOT want in power were last on GVT. And guess who was first on there GVT out of the major parties, oh jee the party you voted for...

You voted for the democrates, so did the independant's yet their pro war and your not? That is the relevance...Another Aziliz classic...

The lower house is much more important for which you chose PRO BUSH over NO BUSH

You have yet to directly say who your first prefernce was in the upper house and the lower house though i think its fair to assume that it was democrates.

"All legislation has to pass through both houses. You really don't understand that either." Aziliz 10/7

"Legislation has to be passed through both houses and the governer general before it can be come a parlimentary act" Kish 29/6

If your going to repeat what I say thats fine, I appreciate your getting desperate now to discredit me, but at least re-word it a little better? Didn't they teach you that plagiarism is...

Contradiction 1:

You voted labour and your happy about that because you found a p/r that states they did not approve of IRAQ. Yet on there website in 1 of only 6 of there policies (blueprints) they VERY CLEARLY state that they are PRO WAR ON TERROR and that they are PRO BUSH. In fact there critism of LIbreal in there own policies that liberal used our troops in Iraq when he should have been using them in Afganistan to find Bin Laden?

Whats the difference between the war on the taliban or the war in iraq? There both WARS and there both PRO BUSH WARS. You see the biggest contradiction on the planet is to pretend your ANTI WAR when you are PRO BUSH. A vote for Labour is PRO BUSH, its in HIS OWN POLICES! You obviously know next to nothing about the War on Terror to even suggest this is a comprimise in policies.

Contradiciton 2:

I voted for a ind whos preference eventually ended up with CDP...that somehow in your childish illogical mind makes me PRO WAR. Democrates voted for CDP over all OTHER MAJOR parties yet they are NOT PRO WAR? you voted for a PRO WAR party in your first preference according to your own stupid logic, because if im pro war, then Democrates are pro war...

Contradiction 3:

Your angry that Democrates voted for CDP, how you could you NOT KNOW THIS when youve been preaching that I SHOULD OF KNOWN my ind would pref CDP?..this is more hypocracy, none the less..."good one"

Once again name calling...*yawn*...

If someone wanted war (in Iraq and Afganistan) and other erosions of civil liberties stopped what can they do?

One important thing they can do is vote. If you want to stop the war you give your vote to the party with the most anti war/the erosion of civil rights policies. The party/ies against the invasions in the first place, who want the troops withdrawn and who want Guantanamo Bay shut,who is constantly campaigning against the ongoing erosion of civil liberties. Simple. Two parties exist in Australia doing that--Democrats and Greens.

Other parties are more or less pro and anti-war. It's not just black and white. Some are against the invasion in the first place but think the troops should stay there now they're in. Some are anti-war in Iraq but pro-war in Afghanistan. The parties have different ideas on issues of national security and the powers of the state over the individual.

So what do you do? Look for the perfect party?--it doesn't exist. Refuse to vote? Then you simply allow others to make the decision for you.

You lose the opportunity to, not make the situation ideal, but at least to improve the situation.

If there's one party that's pro-war in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan and another that's just for the war in Afghanistan then I will put my preference to the one who would REDUCE the amount of war before I would not vote therefore allowing others to put in power the party that's pro both wars. You aren't into improving the situation--you just want others to decide who gets in the House of Reps and thereby throw any power you may have had over the situation away.

In the Senate you voted for someone you had no idea what they thought of the war and allowed your preference to go to the most prowar of the parties. You said as long as Labour and Liberal don't get in you don't mind that you voted for the most prowar of the parties.