CONFLICT OVER RESOURCES. (Genesis 13)

8 So Abram said to Lot, "Let's not have any quarreling between you and me, or between your herdsmen and mine, for we are brothers. 9 Is not the whole land before you? Let's part company. If you go to the left, I'll go to the right; if you go to the right, I'll go to the left."

“and Lot looked up and saw that the whole plain of the Jordan was well watered”

GREED AND PRIDE

“So Lot chose for himself the whole plain of the Jordan”

MEEKNESS and HUMILITY.... inherits the earth

14 The LORD said to Abram after Lot had parted from him, "Lift up your eyes from where you are and look north and south, east and west. 15 All the land that you see I will give to you and your offspring [a] forever. (how long is ‘forever’ ? up to 2006 ?)

CONFIRMED BY JESUS

Blessed are the meek, ..... for they will inherit the earth.

Within 300 yrs, Rome was Christian. without war,sword,army or battle.

CONTRAST with BIN LADIN

Quran

8:65 O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you twenty steadfast they shall overcome two hundred, and if there be of you a hundred (steadfast) they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they (the disbelievers) are a folk without intelligence

2:216 Warfare is ordained for you

4:74 Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.

Vast reward for killing ?

On the ‘without intelligence’ bit, perhaps some reflection on this by them might be in order.

Is this ‘vilification’ ? “Holding up to public ridicule and serious contempt, on the basis of religion”
Inciting to hatred ? Do you fight those you love or those you hate ?
Inciting violence ?

As for me, and my house, we reject Mohammed, and choose the Lord (Jesus). Blessed be His name.

Bin Laden WAS a twisted man ruined and brainwashed by the US and CIA, then decided to ark up against them.

What a shame he died and the US uses him as propoganda to begin justifying its next strategic phase in the conflict.

If a country like the US, with the most powerful intelligence and army in the world cannot find a sick mountain goat like Bin Laden, when they can find saddam (remembering saddam was much more covert than Bin Laden), it goes to show this man is merely a poster boy to assist the US in its new world structure.

I am not a conspiracy theorist at all. I am objective, have seen the facts and not listened to others, merely used common sense.

How funny is it that he pops up at such convenient times for the US. If they were fair dinkum they would have penetrated AL Jazeera, followed medical records, done an emu bob over the monutains and flushed him out and be on the fastrack to finding him, its just that he does not exist anymore.

Hi all

Leigh (post 12:12:01 PM 31/1/06)
It would appear that your appeal to Human_Being will likely fall on deaf ears.
I began with high expectations following his earlier posts. I had even asked him a question - I await an answer. But it appears that he sees Mohammad's life of waging wars & bragging about his conquests as acceptable, yet the disgraceful retaliatory Crusades are his starting point in all discussions. He ignores Mohammad's treachery from 624AD.

BOAZ_David (post 12:46:29 PM 31/1/06)
Well articulated & simply expressed. Very easy reading.
Secular Christianity isn't without sin. Nor is Secular Atheism - as you allude.
Jerusalem certainly is pivotal!

Irfan (post 1:01:50 PM 31/1/06)
I can't speak for Leigh. Only Leigh can speak for Leigh. But what has Judaism got to do with the topic that we are confronting?
Personally: my only real 'problem' with Judaism is that it doesn't recognise Christ for who He is. They're still waiting for the Mashiach ben Yoseph/ben David to come. They miss Isaiah 53 & 54, so the New Testament becomes irrelevant to them. But they are answerable to God (Yahweh) - they aren't answerable to me.
As to Islam: it is not only constantly abrogating, but it gets archaeological & historically proven facts incorrect too, viz:
' "Nobles," Pharaoh (1500BC) said, ... Make me Haman (510BC), bricks of clay, & make me a tower (2250BC) that I may climb to the G'd of Moses (b. 1525BC). ..." Sura 28:37/38. [Sura 28 = Al-Kasas = the Story.].
Is it any wonder that Osama bin LADEN is therefore a deluded & vexatious individual who is despised & distrusted by most of the world's population?

Cheers all

Realist

An excellent and up to date account of where bin Laden might be and whether he’s alive or dead is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden#Whereabouts

Sure bin Laden was financed by the CIA and also MI6 (by the way) at one time – a good fighter against the Russians in Afghanistan in the 1980s.

He may pop up at interesting times (eg 4 days before the 2004 Presidential elections) but that could be al Qaeda’s way of manipulating the Americans as well.

The term bin Laden is handy shorthand for the leadership of al Qaeda, which (in turn) is shorthand for a loose terrorist coalition of wealthy middle class men originating from Saudi Arabia and other Arab states. This makes a complex terrorist concept easier for the West (especially the American public) to understand.

It is convenient to personify the threat as “bin Laden” but this could be misleading, particularly if he is dead.

If bin Laden is dead that would possibly make his long term associate Egyptian born Ayam al-Zawahiri http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayman_al-Zawahiri head of al Qaeda leadership. Al Zawahiri is a medical doctor (so also middle class) who may have treated bin Laden and is also an operational planner.

I don’t have your faith that the US is all powerful and all seeing. It would be a major political victory for Bush if the US could prove it had killed him or that he was dead for some other reason.

Regards

Plantagenet
http://spyingbadthings.blogspot.com/

It may score a few short term brownie points if the US revealed he was dead, but they need a 'figurhead of evil' to justify their direction.

If you feel the US not all powerful. Look at google earth, and then tell me the US, who can see the tag on the back of your shirt from their satellites from out of space cannot locate movement in a remote area of Afganistan/Pakistan. They even have body heat sensors that can penetrate 15 metres underground.

How do you think they found Saddam? Saddam was not flanked by others as Bin Laden was (based on his health, his past etc), almost the only person who knew where Saddam was was Saddam himself.

If someone killed thousands of my people in the most terrifying attack my country has ever seen, i would be like a bat out of hell. I would not invade the country where possibly he is hiding, i would find HIM.

It does not hurt that the US powers that be know the family, know him and know his profile. they have some of the best minds in the world, yet they fail to find him.

They need a bogey man to enact their plans. We will watch the integration of the invasion of Iran with the evil of Bin Laden, just like Iraq, confuse the issue and throw a blanket over them all.
"Al Quada could get hold of nuclear weapons from Iran", they will say. therefore we must stop it etc etc.

So predictable. Its like being an hour into a 3hr movie and knowing the end. Iran will be gone with strong resistance, Arab Israeli conflict will escalate and US will move in on Israels side, the US people wont want to change governments during this tense time, and we will see the beginning of the Muslim vs the rest of the world disassociation and conflict.

Lucky we are a world where we all do care about eachother, we dont want war and are afraid of it, contrary to belief.
Wake me when it ends.

LAB,

Yes, I should know better. I’ve never had a straight answer from FH or Irfan.

There could be many reasons for this, of course; but the one that immediately comes to mind as that you cannot defend the indefensible.

Irfan used to write some interesting articles, but would never respond to a question. His articles were always only about Islam, of course. FH appears only when he/she wants to tell us something about Islam – never takes part in any other topic.

They both appear to be like some used car salesman. All smiles until you find a fault, and then they don’t want to know.

Even the Masons have opened a little, but not the Mossies.