Does US involvement with the Afgani Mujihadin lead by the very wealth Osama really have a bearing on what we're facing now?

If the US = German industry and Hitler = Osama

German heavy industry supported Hitler - their political goals coincided originally. But when Hitler was really understood, it was too late and German heavy industry was bombed to smithereens.

Can we say they were dumb for aligning with Hitler, yes. Can we equate the captains of German industry with Hitler himself? No we're talking about totally distant levels of morality surely.

One is premeditated, the other is mercenary true and self interested but didn't have plans for world domination and extinction of a whole people as Hitler had. Hitler wasn't stupid he wasn't going to scandalise the ppl he needed to use to attain power, he wasn't going to be explicit to 'just anyone'.

Even this analogy does the US a disservice given the fact they were fighting communism. Also the US CIA, probably had no real idea about Islam. The CIA is not well known for its analysis :)

You were going so well there Martin. Just couldn't resist that last dig could you?

"One Christian who kills an abortion doctor is somehow the same as all Islamic terrorism"

So this is your riposte? That "one abortion doctor" dying isn't that bad? Instead of addressing my fundamental argument that no religion lacks blood on its hands, you choose to simply trivialise death. Shame on you. Unlike you, I don't wish to cheapen this discussion by arguing about which religion has the greater kill count. Not that it would matter anyway, as the Quran says, "Killing one man is like killing all of humanity".

If the above quote is imprecise, please forgive me, I am not Muslim. I leave it to the real Muslims out there to rebut the selective quoting of Quran passages that seems to be currently going on.

It puzzles me all the time when OSBL starts spraying that there is not the discussion about that the poor cultural/social/economic state Islamic countries are in by many in the media. I always see OSBL missing the bigger picture, probably deliberately, that would help more people of what he calls his faith than anything. Wealthy, healthy and curious people are less likely to start blow themselves up to hurt others. Life might be good to live?

It has been eluded too by others in this forum but it is staggering that the countries with these huge oil reserves can at the same time be so poor and scientifically backward (relatively) to the western world. It is interesting that with the Muslim population that there is significantly under-representation in the scientific and engineering communities. I cannot remember the exact numbers but only a fraction of the scientific articles are published each year from what one would expect of that scientific community.

Is this because, as someone has suggested, that Islam does not want to/can’t focus on itself as it should. Is OSBL diverting people from this.
Another example (I hope I remember correctly) being the lack of analysis of when/why Jordon kicked out the Palestinians (quite hard too) but now the focus is all on the struggle with Israel. A home land in Jordon was thought to be good at one stage. But now Muslim countries continue banging the Israel drum to avoid looking internally.

Finally, I know there are comedians of all sorts out there but rarely do you hear routines about Islam especially compared other religions. Why the lack of self perspective?

Just some thoughts.

BIN LADEN THE OPERATIONAL PLANNER

Most posts above have dealt with the issue of Islam. While this is sincere stuff it neglects the reality that bin Laden is infamous because he is a terrorist operational planner first and religious "seer" second.

He uses religion to pull the wool over everyones eyes in his personal struggle against the House of Saud. My contention is that he is fighting more of a class struggle between bored, wealthy Saudi sons (like him) against the decadent Royal Family of Saudi Arabia (like his parent's generation).

Its significant that Saudi Arabia is the holiest country of Islam but its unhelpful when eliminating him to get lost in a sea of religious debate.

A SECOND VIDEO

Quickly following bin Laden's media reappearance has been today's airing of al Qaeda second-in-command Ayman Al-Zawahiri's video taunting the US about an air strike in Pakistan which failed to kill him.

MELBOURNE COMMONWEALTH GAMES 15-26 MARCH 06

If these videos are supposed to signify that al-Qaeda and its leadership live its also a concern that these may also signify a buildup towards another operation.

The popular concentration on the US as a target may be a diversion from another high profile Western target full of international media.

The Melbourne Games or perhaps other major Australia cities during the games fill the bill. New York 2001, Madrid 2004, Melbourne? I'm crossing my fingers nothing will happen.

Stay tuned for the commentaries of "experts" on this subject in the Main Stream Media (MSM) and maybe OLO.

According to "the book" violence is advocated in certain instances. That is "violence".

I guess that means innocent people. People using trains and buses. Women having both their legs blown off just before they are going to get married. Women then getting married with the help of a prosthetist. That is courage. There is nothing courageous about blowing yourself up. Apparently you blow yourself up and go to paradise not to meet God but 72 virgins. One would have thought that paradise was about spiritual matters. Great religion.

Osama bin Laden is a snake who wants to kill innocent people. They are only infidels after all. Already we have seen muslims arrested in this country for planned terrorist activities. When will people wake up to this "religion".

Violence + 72 virgins = paradise. Nice religion with friends in high places. Just ask Nick Griffin.

Leigh you should fear religious fundamentalist no matter what the flavor. Christian don't from terror groups because they are in a position of power in the west. When they aren't they do form armies and terror groups. You just have to read what religious leaders actually say to know that the goals of Christian Jewish and Muslim fundamentalists are the same. The only difference is their methods and as history has shown these change with the level of power. For instance did you know the Israel first prime minister was in a terror group that use to bomb British troops and civilians in Palestine. Christian groups are always pushing to have their ten commandments the basis of our laws and many Christians groups are opposed to democracy and secularism. Just look at the US league for the separation of church and state to see which groups aren’t members.
So while most Christians largely ignore the ten commandments should Christian fundamentalist ever getting into power they will enforce them as the taliban did and as Christians have in the past.
To be a fundamentist in this day and age clearly indicates the believer to have some deep seated mental problems.