I think Arjay is close to the mark. I would argue that Australia needs immigration, not to have it would see us atrophy as a post-colonial outpost instead of the vibrant, innovative society and economy we need to be. We can take the best from overcrowded countries where opportunity is limited and here they will find boundless opportunity if they are willing to live in peace and prosperity. None of us want immigrants to import troubles from back home. Immigrants who bring professional or business skills and who raise children to be successful members of our society make a great social and economic contribution. Anyone who denies that or wants to concentrate on negatives is simply prejudiced. If we are to have immigration, we need some sort of guidelines so that people are encouraged to live in harmony. It isn't perfect of course, but it is better than the 'good old days' when naked prejudice was routinely shown to migrants. People nowadays know that is not on, and that's a big improvement in my view. Those contributors to this forum who sneer at PC seem to be saying 'we want to be able to call a wog a wog'. Is that right or not?

Keith,

No. I don’t prefer the White Australia Policy, and have never said that I do. Multiculturalism has been occurring naturally since the demise of that system and needs no urging or special favours. If that makes me intolerant in your eyes, so be it. Like all those of your persuasion, you are very keen on minority figures. “More than 30% of our population have been born or have parents born overseas”. Big deal. The vast majority – 70% are native born. And, I don’t think you are in any position to decide what “we” are comfortable about. Remember, you are seeing the situation as a non-native. You came to Australia and Australia adopted you as one of ours. Despite PC opinions, it is impossible to remove, in any country, that small touch of resentment felt when migrants start telling the locals how they feel or should feel – or anything else, for that matter.

You are right, in my case at least: I am far for concerned about immigration than I am about the make up of immigrants themselves. And I do make that clear in other quarters. Obviously, though, it doesn't have any effect.

You certainly don’t need to be put off by my comment. I’m not attempting to gag anyone, but I will express my opinions, not of fellow posters, but of any ‘outsider’ (which you were in this case) who tries to persuade me by writing an article. Despite my criticism, you still don’t seem to understand how many people see multiculturalism, and that the main gripe is the unwanted, undemocratic, and highly political and divisive system nobody (including migrants) ever asked for. So nothing changes.

Fair enough. It was worth a try. Viva democracy, eh? I just hope we can hang onto it.

Regards

There seems to be some confusion here where people talk about the supposed economic benefits of immigration. There is a distinction between the size of the whole cake (GNP) and the size of an average slice (GNP per capita), as well as issues about how the cake is distributed. Clearly GNP per capita is what matters to most people, i.e. one would rather be an average citizen in Denmark than China, even though China has a bigger GNP. There is NO correlation between GNP per capita and immigration and population growth among the developed countries. You can see this for yourselves from figures in the CIA World Factbook. There is a correlation for Third World countries, but it is negative: higher population growth means more poverty. This is also consistent with the recently released Productivity Commission draft report on immigration, and with a number of other studies in the US and elsewhere. (See the website of the Center for Immigration Studies (www.cis.org).)

What high population growth does do, and why the rich love it, is change the income distribution within a country. Prof. George Borjas (of the Harvard Economics Dept., www.borjas.com) has found that a 10% increase of the labour supply in a particular type of job results on average in a 3-4% cut in real wages. Great if you are the employer. Not so great if you are the poor working stiff.

You might ask yourselves why wages went up in the US and the economy continued to grow strongly when immigration was mostly shut off in 1921. Why is the US minimum wage worth less in real terms than in 1960? Why has the US median wage was been falling for the past 5 years, even though productivity is up by 15%? (See the website of the Economic Policy Institute (www.epinet.org).) Why is Finland number one on the World Economic Forum Competitiveness Index even though if has a population growth rate of only 0.16% and net immigration of 0.89 per thousand, as opposed to 3.91 in Australia?

Liegh quote:

"Despite my criticism, you still don’t seem to understand how many people see multiculturalism, and that the main gripe is the unwanted, undemocratic, and highly political and divisive system nobody (including migrants) ever asked for."

You say this often to support whatever barrow you're pushing (well it’s the old rickety but with a different load) - but you provide absolutely no evidence to back this up. While support for Multiculturalism has waned over the years I believe it still highly supported by the majority of Australians.

This poll certainly confirms my assertion:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17639227%255E29277,00.html

This poll also points out that the perception of racism in Australia have remained unchanged since 1997, when 44 per cent said they believed the nation was racist.

This is certainly more accurate than what appears to be your own reports on societal attitudes – that one can only assume – are gleaned from your morning walks to the corner shop.

Keith, I reckon you could have used these newspoll stats in your article to great effect

Keith,

I don't think I will ever embrace multiculturalism, none the less you put a good case for.

Cheers

Leigh

‘You are right, in my case at least: I am far for concerned about immigration than I am about the make up of immigrants themselves. And I do make that clear in other quarters. Obviously, though, it doesn't have any effect.’
I’d say it is having quite an effect in many quarters. We have a similar sentiment on this issue.
I think you are right too. Most liberal-minded people think and argue in a similar vein.

I misquoted that figure. I often make mistakes through lapses of memory. It is in fact 43% not 30%.

‘ And, I don’t think you are in any position to decide what “we” are comfortable about. Remember, you are seeing the situation as a non-native. You came to Australia and Australia adopted you as one of ours.’

I just wonder how indigenous people feel about this statement. Did you include those people in your ‘native-born’ class? Or could they equally say to you:

‘I don’t think you are in any position to decide what “we” are comfortable about….’

Rainier
Is this an example of the sort of thing you mean?
(Thanks for the Newspoll link. Interesting. It contradicts some of what I've said.)

We will all thrive with our democracy.