KRS-1 prima facie what you say seems reasonable. But you misunderstand the crucial concept.

In Judaism and Christianity God's reveals himself through his imperfect creatures who are historically and contextually conditioned.

If we want to understand what is meant by the passage in the Bible we have to understand what kind of book it is, who wrote it, when, and in what context.

The more we know about humans and history, the more we will understand God's Revelation. It is a living book.

What is right to change as we change - does.

The Qur'an however was allegedly delivered by the Archangel Gabriel and a copy resides in Heaven. This is an eternal unchanging completely explicit revelation. (And utterly ugly) This means the Qur'an cannot be contextualised, what you see is what you get. God has told you what to do exactly you must do it!

The Qur'an is a complete jumble. It is not in chronological order, 20% is incomprehensible. It requires the Sunnahs (histories and records of Mohammed and his activities) to try to understand it. These records (hadiths) together with the Q are demonic in every sense of the word.

Please read this. It is an excellent summation of what Islam is all about, I don’t think you’ll find better on the internet.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/001307.php

We have been confused by GW Bush saying “Islam is a religion of peace; the terrorists hijack a peaceful religion” and Pope John Paul II saying nice ecumenical things about Islam. They are aware the west is very pc and have to be politically expedient. An explanation of this is here:

‘Why even the Pope has to whisper’

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/others/spengler.html

What Hitler and Nazism meant was there for all to read in Mein Kampf 20 years before the war. Winston Churchill was persecuted for speaking out against the Germans before the war. He knew what it meant.

Europe has let too many Muslims in its probably too late for them now.

If we want to know it there in black and white.

Appeasement and accomodation of this religion is suicide. Eg Netherlands.

Hi all

It's expanded since my posting this morning.

Sage (posted 10:48:54 AM 30/1/06)
Spot-on. Worse? A certain professor who is a lecturer at Monash University, & an Anglican priest, falsely bears witness in the ICV vs CTFM VCAT Case # A392/2002. Refer p 49 of Judge HIGGINS "Summation" - misquoted is Matt 7:9; s/b 5:7. That individual is a well-paid founding member of the Australian Multicultural Foundation, headed by Hass DELAL. That tax-payer funded case costs? Millions. And two pastors 'crippled'.

Coach (posted 11:34:02 AM 30/1/06)
Couldn't agree more!

Alchemist (posted 12:06:28 PM 30/1/06)
I get a similar feedback from those I talk with from overseas - & they're people whom I didn't know before. They think that we're "nuts" for embracing multiculturalism.

Ev (posted 2:29:55 PM 30/1/06)
A good summary. I hadn't done those calculations before. Well put.

KSR 1 (posted 2:35:59 PM 30/1/2006)
Your quote: "I know some Muslims". Fantastic! How many?
I know well in excess of 200 Muslims - people like Keysar TRAD very well. My hairdresser is about the nicest. He's 'nominal'. Doesn't know the Qur'an. He's horrified by what I've shown him - he can read it in Arabic as well as English from my copy (approved by Keysar).
The Qur'an is in constant conflict with itself in accordance with what is called “An-Nasekh wa Al-Mansoukh” (the abrogated & abrogating text). I can give examples in both Arabic & English to ad nausium. Islam isn't about study of text & interpretation by the masses, it's about obedience. Thus it's "pot-luck" as to what the imam teaches.
Try reading & studying the Qur'an, viz: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
You might like to learn about the fatwahs & killings within Australia, viz Dr Makin Morcos in Mt Druitt in 1991. I remember it well - my mum's murder case was being heard when he was killed. Also the 'alleged' threats against Rev Fayek ISKANDER in March 2004 by Muslim Farouk ALFRAKHANI at an Interfaith Meeting attended by the the Federal Attorney General. There are pages of incident, viz the Menai McDonalds Riot in 1998, et ali.

Cheers all

I have got a unique opportunity to gouge and embrace Australian multiculturalism to a point where understanding of its very segregating and divisive reality on a multi-nations country, where diversity is a good excuse for living apart.

Maybe, with no shadow of elementary forgiveness to Islamists, this is a case when keeping silence on obvious issue is a right path to any orthodoxy.

It doesn't work because everyone keeps complaining about it. It means you identify people by the way they look, what else is it? Where is all this culture btw?

So we get people complaining about being referred to as being "middle eastern appearance" when they are aboriginal even! Or middle eastern being labelled anglo saxon (as many are white). Or whites being labelled anglo saxon when it is not to the case. Heaven knows what mixed race race or real minority populations think their identity is.

If anyone thinks that multicultural policy has been a success and we have become more tolerant doesn't read much. Where do you ever read an article how wonderful it is to be part of Australia, how tolerant it is. The only message sent has been that is must be the worse country in the world to immigrate to. And this message has been sent worldwide.

Zilch positive feedback, maybe we should just face the truth. PC was the nail in the coffin.

Keith,

I like your views on Islam. Thank you for the link.

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE IN ISLAM
JAN 30 2006 The Australian.
[Aziza Abdel-Halim, the only female member of the Prime Minister's Muslim Advisory Council, has warned that Islamic women are being "put down" by imams in hardline and moderate circles and their rights ignored.
"Women have suffered from sometimes ill-informed imams ... who have tried to put down women and negate some of their rights or activities," she said yesterday.
"And some of them (imams) have condoned men beating women, which is un-Islamic." ]

Its the last phrase which is curious.

How can something which is directly stated in the Quran be ‘un Islamic’ ?
If this shows nothing else, it shows that the level of ‘spin’ coming from “make it up as u feel” people in Islam.

If this was a Christian issue, and women were saying “Covering of female hair in Church meetings is UNChristian” it would be indirect conflict with the Bible.

Whether such a rule is rigidly enforced or not is a separate issue, but no one could come away from Pauls writings and claim it was ‘un’ Christian for females to cover the hair in Church. Yet this is the reasoning Aziza is using about Islam.

Here is another example of ‘spin’ from the Muslim Womens League

http://www.mwlusa.org/publications/positionpapers/violence.html

“Islam requires that husbands treat their wives with respect and it prohibits any form of physical or emotional abuse”

To be blunt, that is an outright lie! It’s not spin, because she is fully aware of the relevant verse shown below.

Well... lets look at the Quran and settle the issue.

[Sura 4:34 If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them.]

The most fascinating aspect of this verse, is the gymnastics undertaken by female Muslims to attempt to show how this ‘PROHIBITS’ domestic violence .... I just shake my head in bewonderment at that. Hmm Has feathers.. webbed feet.. a flat bill, goes ‘quack quack’... swims.. so.. its a ........ “Chicken” :)