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The Forum > Article Comments > A Lebanese 'problem'? > Comments

A Lebanese 'problem'? : Comments

By Tanveer Ahmed, published 15/12/2005

Tanveer Ahmed argues there is a specific segment of the Lebanese community in Sydney causing the unrest.

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Tanveer is Muslim and quite right in his views, redneck you must understand no need exists for extremist action or thoughts.
Truth will in time highlight the simple truth, some, far too many, from this group use the word Australian as an insult.
I will wait till the outcry dies down and the simple truth is exposed some are clearly never going to change and Australia has no need of them, racist? come for the most part raceism is now a tool of minoritys as are lies,we however should continue to say sorry for a few and listen to the silence from the other side.
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 18 December 2005 1:34:23 PM
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Let me start by introducing myself. I am a Lebanese christian from Lebanon I've been studying in Sydney for 2 years now...to be honest I love it...city-living is great and the multicultural atmosphere is exciting. However recently I can help but wonder how people like Tanveer can outright accuse so specifically a group of people for certain crimes or anti-social behaviour. My friend for you to say that it is not a muslim thing you are 100% wrong. The issue is mainly a muslim thing, because it is a lot harder for a muslim to assimilate into western culture than a christian middle-easternIn regards to you sayign that australia does not encounter problems with other arabs: the reasons for that are far and in between.
1. None of those countries endured what Lebanon endured in its 15 year civil war (between muslims and christians) which was ignited by palestinians and other arabs and then pro-longed by Syria.
2. Most them assimilate into the Lebanese-australian community and integrate themselves among other muslims.
3. They do not endure the same profiling as lebanese because they are not in the same numbers as lebanese.

Another post said that no other migrant group had anywhere near this much problems. Well i don't think you've heard of the MAFIA in melbourne or the Triads in sydney I think they are a lot more worrying than the 16 year olds roaming around darling harbor. If only one of you would go to lebanon and have a look how we live even aftero ur cities were destroyed, you will know what Lebanese truly are. The problems of the lebanese-australian communities are local problems, caused by the local society, not lebanon or our culture. Stand up and take responsibility for your ignorance, for allowing the media to control how u live and how u think ( the media is posting those text messages, and then they condemn them) , I used to think about settling here, now I worry that none of us enjoy the freedom we thought existed in Australia.
Posted by complexity, Sunday, 18 December 2005 3:06:39 PM
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I lived in Sydney most of my life, and never saw carloads of Triads or Italians out looking for trouble, and never had known contact with either group despite living in what was then an Italian suburb. Lebanese are an entirely different kettle of fish- one doesn't have to go far to find a group of them- there are groups of 12-20 of them roaming most western suburbs shopping centres. A group of Chinese that big would most likely be a bespectacled group of students. A group of Italians that big, in picnic area, would shout out greetings and offer one a glass of wine. Family groups of Lebanese will take over picnic areas and if not force out others, at least make it unpleasant for them.

The problem is largely, but not entirely, a Muslim one. Arab men frankly seem to have a bad attitude towards women.
Posted by Viking, Sunday, 18 December 2005 5:51:15 PM
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Dear Complexity

We need your help to clarify some important issues in this matter.

I feel sad because what I noticed last weekend, was that the centre of activity and 'revenge' revolved around the Lakemba Mosque, then car loads of 'Lebs' went to attack. I am only guessing here, but I can't imagine hundres of Leb Christians gathering to protect the Mosque, nor can I imagine them then going to trash Cronulla. I would truly appreciate any feedback you might have about this observation.
If I'm wrong, I'm happy to be corrected.

Could you fill us in, on that event ? (Many Christian lebs present?)
and is there a feeling among your group which sees 'ethnic' solidarity as more important than religious difference ?

I would also love to know, if your group are 'culturally predisposed' to feeling uncomfortable when at the beach surrounded by bikini clad girls etc.. as I know the Muslims are. Do Leb Christian women bathe fully clothed ? and do you have segregated bathing ?

We are quite ignorant of 'in community' feedback on these issues, so please help us.

For your re-assurance, speaking as an Anglo/Scot myself, all we ask is for our culture to be respected, not to be bullied and not to be 'gang attacked'. Our resentment of these things would apply to any group, be they Leb or Asian or whoever. It would equally apply to sub groups among ourselves "Irish" "Scottish" etc. The connection at the moment between Lebanese ethnicity and gang crime is purely coincidental.

Its as simple as understanding that if a group of Aussies went to Beruit and claimed a chunk of beach, locals would be as outraged as us.

But the evidence weighs heavily towards the predominant gang activity being on the Muslim end of the Lebanese community and spiralled up since 94 (I'm happy to be shown reports which will show otherwise, but I've not seen any)

I know what you suffered at Damour and our hearts go out to you.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Sunday, 18 December 2005 7:12:41 PM
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Thank you Dr Ahmed for your information - food for thought.

Years ago , Australia was a peaceful country / communities were cohesive, but sadly due to the politicians and their never - ending short term measures, in this case the “solution” of migration have upset that and shall continue to do so, no matter how many police are employed .

Why such ignorance on a matter that has been shown time and time again in many other countries over many, many years to be a never-ending problem, a matter that is ignored by bureaucrats and politicians who blame anything but the root cause and do little until forced to do so and then ineffectively.

The Australian intelligence is insulted when we are told by pathetic radio and television advertising that we are multicultural and its all such a wonderful success.

See Andrew Bartletts blog where I have placed a 3776 word comment on this problem in our community. In 350 words one cannot begin to elucidate knowledge, experience or my thoughts and others on this most divisive problem.
Posted by Pachelbel, Sunday, 18 December 2005 7:36:04 PM
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Part of the problem is the culture of Islam where men and women do not socialise outside of the immediate family. This results in boys hanging out with boys only. All that testosterone running about in intimidating groups of young men. (The harassment of western female tourists travelling in countries like Egypt is well known). Multiply those macho boy gangs by a hundred in a concentrated geographical area trying to find their identity in a Western christian based culture.

Every migrant group will struggle to fit into a new culture but nothing can ever be as jarring as fundamentalist Islam alongside Western beach style hedonism. The muslims demand to be able to practice their Islamic values in public (ie. a place at the beach for their women to bathe in their burkas), while the anglo aussies refuse to compromise and demand that they stop harassing bikini clad women and assimilate with the dominant culture. One solution would be to officially mark out a muslim only area on Cronulla beach or perhaps ban the bikinis.

If we accept muslims into our country in the first place, we have to make some compromises especially in places where they make up a large part of the local population. If we don't, they'll simply take matters into their own hands. The non muslim/anglo aussies of Cronulla who don't want to compromise are backed into a corner. As the muslim population of Lakemba and Cronulla grows, one day it will be impossible to go to the beach without wearing a burka. That is the reality of multiculturalism and even if it is hard, we have to swallow it whether we like it or not.
Posted by minuet, Sunday, 18 December 2005 9:11:40 PM
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