BD, you didn't answer my question. However, you did reveal that what really motivates you is fear of militant Islam. Reading between the lines I presume that you are not really in favour of banning Buddhists, Hindus etc from Australia because of adherence to food laws.

Irfan, have you ever studied the Talmud? Do you know what the Talmud is? What "Talmudic rabbis" are you referring to in your post and which tractates of the Talmud are the source of your assertion?

Hi Ari, yes, partly you are correct.

Fear is what I felt in Sarawak as I made a state border crossing without a passport (we were supposed to not need one at that time I was told) , in the aftermath of an election in which the Muslim candidate lost to a Catholic Indigenous one. It was not pleasant looking down the barrels of a couple of M16s held by Soldiers of the 'right' religion, but I managed to talk my way through with the help of some indigeous people.

Fear of militant Islam is what i absolutely fear as I read of the events of Malaku.. Indonesia.. did you read about that ? You should do a search mate.

Ari, my wifes family (in Malaysia) and therefore many of my own relations live in a similar situation to the Christians of Malaku, surrounded by Muslims and a Government and Army similar in make up and attitude to the Indonesian one. The thought of my mother in law being dragged to a mosque and 'circumcized' sends shivers up my spine.

I fear it on the social level, not the spiritual. As F.H. says, it is better to light a candle than curse the darkness, I rather like that illustration. Sometimes though, darkness is 'seen' to be light, such as by Israel at the time of Isaiah's prophecy posted above.

As Christians we are called to be 'Salt' (to preserve) and "light" to show the way. Where are you Ari ? Jewish ? (canaan was cursed) or perhaps Palestinian ? Son of Canaan is not a name a Jew would choose.

I call all men and women to Christ. In Him there is salvation and forgiveness.

"I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." John 8:12

He, is our candle in a dark world.

Dear David

Circumsion of an elderly woman - any female for that matter?? I feel sick. Can you elaborate on this please?

I have no understanding of this kind of behaviour.

As I am writing this - watching the ABC stuff on suicide bombers. Sickening.

See ya
Kay

kalweb,
I assume B_D will give you full description but I note he has exhausted his 2 x 24 hour posts on this thread.

Female circumcision removes the clitoris and all the highly sensitive area above the vagina. Male circumcision only removes the loose skin on the penis but does not remove the similar sensitive area of the penis. The idea is to reduce any sexual arousal in these women, presumably to reduce chances of them committing adultery.

Barbaric - is all I can say!

Re female circumcision AKA female genital mutilation or FGM.
Its gross, horrible, for a personal account see Wais Dirie "Desert Flower" and she's written other books. The degree of mutilation varies, described on Amnesty's website from which following is copied;
http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/femgen/fgm1.htm#a11

FGM predates Islam and is not practised by the majority of Muslims, but has acquired a religious dimension. Where it is practised by Muslims, religion is frequently cited as a reason. Many of those who oppose mutilation deny that there is any link between the practise and religion, but Islamic leaders are not unanimous on the subject. The Qur'an does not contain any call for FGM, but a few hadith (sayings attributed to the Prophet Muhammad) refer to it. In one case, in answer to a question put to him by 'Um 'Attiyah (a practitioner of FGM), the Prophet is quoted as saying "reduce but do not destroy". Mutilation has persisted among some converts to Christianity. Christian missionaries have tried to discourage the practice, but found it to be too deep rooted. In some cases, in order to keep converts, they have ignored and even condoned the practice.

FGM was practised by the minority Ethiopian Jewish community (Beta Israel), formerly known as Falasha, a derogatory term, most of whom now live in Israel, but it is not known if the practise has persisted following their emigration to Israel. The remainder of the FGM-practising community follow traditional Animist religions.

Shoshana... yes, point taken. I was not saying anything about FGM specifically for Islam, just pointing out what was done to Christians in Molaku Indonesia 'by' Muslims, (Jihad Warriors) hence giving foundation for fear of the potential for similar events to occur in Malaysia where similar circumstances exist. I don't feel such a thing would happen in Australia where the military/police balance is totally on the side of non 'jihad' types, i.e. 'us'.

Philo, thanx for the more clinical explaination, Kay I think that was pretty clear about the matter.

Shoshana.. do you speak hebrew ?
Is53:5-6
vehu mekholal mipshaenu meduka meavonoteinu musar shelomenu alav uvakhavurato nirpa-lanu:
kulanu katson tainu ish ledarko paninu vaadonai hifgia bo et avon kulanu:

I pray that one day you will comprehend these words in their fullness, and see how they relate to the G-d of all the earth, and His plan of redemption for mankind in Christ.