Irfan, very well put, I agree with you. You also have that situation within the christian church, thick preachers and they come from the US. Isn't it interesting that the US and Saudi are allies, controlled by the religious right and both indulge in Terror. If you can change things to rid your religion of the thick ones, then would it not be a step forward to move towards adopting Australian cultural values to allay fears of your religious culture being force upon us. Instead of flaunting it in public knowing that it inflames people, not a very loving or caring attitude

I read that a big wig in your religion said, that if a follower of Islam is having trouble with the culture of their adopted country, then they should look at themselves not the country for fault. One point, it is not all of the troublemakers that come from overseas, there are those that are born here in all religions that fit the category of thick.

Maybe even religious people like you, may wake up and see the reality of what your beliefs actually project to the world, rather than what you hope they would. Until religion accepts that it only has the same rights as as those that don't believe, then nothing will change, religious history is the gauge of it's credibility.

Ifran,
Once again, you make sense of it all.

I guess now the main issue is how to get the message to the masses – of both the non- and Islamic people of Australia – perhaps even the world.

Like many, I am concerned – with the events overseas and here. However, I have a deep belief that cultures and people can mix healthily and happily together. If not, then this world is a failure and if there was a God involved, he/she/it should hang their head in shame. But I don’t believe that.

Keep educating the non-Islamic to the situation in-house and fostering a better understanding of your faith.

Alchemist,
Though I tend to agree with many of the things you say, I’ like to point out one thing – you have asked religion to accept that it has the same rights as those that do not believe. Should you not also accept that religious have a right to believe without being called a delusion or to ‘wake up to reality’ by yourself? I know you mean well, but it is a two way street.

Now, let’s wait for the intolerance and hypocrisy to begin…

Irfan,

THe opportunity is where the problem lies.

The opportunity for young people, those vulnerable, angry or looking for something, to be exposed to these people with the backing that engage in Terror is where the problem lies.

I admit, during a lost and confused time for me if I were exposed to something that could make me promises, embraces somewhat my beliefs and help me channel the anger I had, I would do. By the time that stage of my life was over and I had recovered, I probably would have been in too deep and brainwashed.

I dont think it is your religion or anything to do with Muslims. If it were a bikie gang doing terrorist attacks, would everyone who had a motorbike be persecuted or tarnished? I am sure so, but having a motorbike may mean you have the opportunity to join an extreme culture such as that.

It is the opportunity that is where the problem lies, and it is only those involved with Islam, and those that know who to contact or who is involved in these 'opportunities' are the only ones that can save thier people, and the people of the world.

I am sure there are perhaps some non terrorists in Islam that may know or are suspicious of some, but turn a blind eye. That is the only way you can stop it in my opinion, and that is a revolt or rejection from within. I am not talking just about words either.

In the schoolyard, when something happens kids often have to stand in a row and not go to lunch etc until someone owns up. I am sure when it gets bad enough, and when every group is scorned and enacting revenge on innocent Muslims, that the religion will work tirelessly out of necessity cough up these extremists.

What we are looking at is a propaganda war and the bad guys have quite a head start; The problem is also exacerbated by the fact that islam is at best a loosely coupled system. There is no clearly defined hierarchy so the messages can well be mixed and varied - even when based on the Koran.

It is only leadership from those Islamic leaders who fell strong enough to unequivocally denounce extremism that will stop the rot; Simialry unequivocal leadership needs to come from our political leaders who try as they may continue to focus more on acts and statements that divide rather than untie; for all the money they spend on spin doctors they have yet to develop a form of words that offers much protection or re assurance to those moderate and genuine muslim among us.

Reason, very good point, I shall have to evolve that fault. The wake up bit, is related to the religious thinking that they have the right to impose upon others, their ideological ways. The delusion that I speak of, is that they believe they are right in those beliefs and completely reject any other option. Plus I do play the devils advocate to draw the thick, blank ones out, it works.

I wish all those within religion well, that can rid themselves of those that bring disdain upon their beliefs in this country. But I won't hold my breath, as I doubt that they have the desire or willingness to take a stand. Sadly the religious are full of words, but little action, unless it is to force their ways.

Even Irfan hints at that. But most religious are followers, not leaders so they follow the strongest no matter their aim, direction or means. The demented blind, leading the mental blind. However I do have compassion, respect and understanding for those that actually live their espoused beliefs in harmony within the sociological cultures that they dwell within.

If this country was not accepting of my rights to a different philosophy and I couldn't adapt it to fit peacefully, then I would leave, even being born and bred here. To do otherwise, is to have a false and misleading belief, that is an illusion within its expression. For a religion to be respectable, it must have respect for those that it seeks respect from. That can only be attained by integrating into the sociological culture they are within. Religion should stop forcing and start fitting.

Sounds reasonable, but would it make any difference? The more I read about Muslims/Islam, the more confused I become.

I have just started on 'taqqiya' and I wonder if we should be taking anything Muslims say at face value.