Fellow human, as far as I'm concerned all religions are stuffed since they were created by cunning men to control and subjugate ignorant people.

We need something better to fill in the gap of our insecurities.Perhaps some common sense wisdom ,logic ,science, maths and philosophy.

This religious banter of "My god is better than yours."will see the world destroy itself.

Anyway what sort of god would want to communicate with such pathetic creatures such as us humans.

Our technological advances have out stripped our ability to cope with change.This new threat of Muslim fundamentalism is the real danger to our human survival.Where is the logic?Just blind faith.

Being dead is like the time before birth.I just have trouble remembering what it was like.Be assured ,death is final and that is why we should treasure this life.

If people of all beliefs don't see this,then it will be only a matter of time before there is a nuclear attack.

Lauri (and Col by the looks of it)
I take your point on board, and accept that I can be very passionate in my efforts/posting, and also that (rightly or wrongly) things I say can be perceived as insulting to those of different opinions.

The same goes for the treatment I receive, from the likes of Garra, and Fiona, occasionally Xena, but she is more good hearted about it. I take it on the chin, and continue to express my views.

I would however ask, that you limit your criticism of my postings to matters of factual inaccuracy, and flaws in reasoning, (I welcome fair scrutiny) rather than how those facts are pereived by others.

I think you will agree, (unless u can show otherwise) that I refrain from personal attacks. At least I aim to avoid it.

Arjay,

I make the point in regard to Christ and following Him, that as Ghandi recognized "If the Christians followed the gospel, India would be Christian" That speaks volumes does it not ?

There is a very noticable difference between 'following' Jesus and 'using His name to legitimize political gains'.

Ghandi saw it, can you ?

TOPIC. I don't really see the need for Muslims to condemn the London bombings (on reflection).. words have to come from the heart and PR is not what we need right now. I would prefer to see Muslims condemning their own prophet for his massacre of the Jews of Bani Qurayza, where groups of them were brought to him to be systematically beheaded, while the women and children were sold/divided up as slaves.

We are calling Srebroniza (the systematic killing of 8000 Muslim men and boys), a 'holocast level war crime' yet Mohammed committed the very same thing to 'POW's who SURRENDERED. If anyone wants reference for this, I can happily provide them. (From Quran and Hadith)

Will Muslims honestly condemn such things ? If not, why not?

No amount of sugar coating can change these factual events. It doesn't matter how many peace overtures Mr Sharon makes, he is still called "war criminal" by Muslims

>Aisha, you said earlier you are a Muslim then agnostic then your >response re the IRA proves you are a Christian.

LOL The only thing it proves is that you are in complete denial about Prophet Muhammad because you have not refuted any of my claims and instead tried diversion. But I can sympathise with you though; it's very upsetting to imagine that these terrorists could be behaving just like the prophet did. I urge you (and others) to go to the forum at www.faithfreedom.org It is a secularists site run by ex muslims. I don't think most westerners realise how crucial it is that Islamic ideology be put under the microscope. The west has been critcising christianity for 5 centuries and it has done them good. Now it's Islam's turn

From the article below it is evident that the Islamic community in Britain honestly believe the holy books written by and about Mohamed (i.e. the Qur’an and Hadiths) actively vilifies and incites hatred of Christians, Jews and infidels and will fall foul of "hate laws". That’s why they have lobbied to have them exempt from the proposed legislation because they actually violate the intended law on religious hatred. Perhaps this recognised after the two Daniels in Victoria quoted passages from these pseudo divine texts that caused laughter. It’s a matter of double standard: Muslims are seeking exemption to be allowed to vilify and promote hatred in the name of their god but Christians are not allowed to quote the texts publicly because it puts Muslims in poor light. They have no consistent morality, and do not see that all men are equal. They obviously believe only Islam has special privilege under shari’ah law.

UNITED KINGDOM, 11 July 2005
The MUSLIM COUNCIL OF BRITAIN has asked that the QUR'AN and Hadiths BE EXEMPT FROM RELIGIOUS HATRED LAW

"Muslim leaders in the UK have raised with a Home Office Minister the possibility of the Islamic scriptures being exempted from the proposed new law banning incitement to religious hatred, which is being debated and voted on in the British Parliament today.
These scriptures include both the Qur'an and the Hadiths ("ahadith" in Arabic) which are traditions recording the words and deeds of Muhammad and his first followers. The Racial and Religious Hatred bill is being debated and voted on in the House of Commons today. This is the third reading of the bill, and if passed today will move forward to be debated in the House of Lords.

Attached... includes the report from the Muslim Weekly...
The Muslim Weekly story is at http://www.themuslimweekly.com/fullstoryview.aspx?NewsID=TW00003074&MENUID=&DESCRIPTION=Search%20result

Note: The President of the Muslim Council of Britain Sir Iqbal Sacranie stated that he was at eased that matters that had caused some obfuscation in the community had been cleared.
He was knighted in the recent Queen's Birthday Honours....
The link contains a list of those in the delegation

JustDan, You comment “you don’t see multinationals accepting goods made for $1 a day as exploitation?”
I have said there has been exploitation. Read what I have written not what you THINK I have written.
If you consider that this might have given someone a job otherwise not available to them OR the wage may be a small but not insignificant contribute to the cost of living in that country. Then I suppose that is exploitation. And I suppose that from there the countries could become like South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, emerging India, Thailand, etc then it might be a route to consider. How soon we forget. Hell, I am in an industry now competing against India low costs all the time. Who would of thought this happening even just twenty years ago?

I still cannot get over some people’s pity them attitude that a country dealing with these “multinationals” is not going to try to get the most it can from the deals. Sounds very much like, these poor people cannot handle it, lets help because we know better. Sounds almost, dare I say, racist. I believe they can and have the capability to improve their lot in life. Which gets onto the thrust of posting on this forum. Ifran’s message. I personally think it needs to go further than just denounce terrorism. But it needs to start somewhere. Muslims (and others) need to speak up against other problems like ideologies that direct the money away from health and education in the developing countries. And lets not concentrate solely on external factors (aid, debt relief which cannot always be there) when many countries like Ethiopia, Saudi, Jordon spend greater % GDP on Defense than US? Or why states have nuclear programs (not cheap) instead of spending more on health and education. Compare with Costa Rica, abolished the army in 1949, spend Quarter of its budget on education and has a thriving health sector. Life expectancy is comparable with the West. Consider this honestly and tell me who is exploiting who?
So why not denounce terrorism?

Aisha,
Again you are betting on the ignorance of your counterpart.
There are two different scenarios you keep confusing: POW and ‘treason during war’:

- When Prophet Mohamed entered Mecca after a decade or so of being persecuted and prevented to pray in his home town. He took 6,000 prisoners. These are POWs and what did he do to them? He released them all regardless of their religion with no condition.
- The incident you refer to is a time of war: all Jewish tribes promised truce when the prophet was in a war, then one of the jewish tribes turned and attacked his back and killed lots of civilians. This is treason during war and at least has the decency to mention that the proposed punishment was made by other Jewish tribes who wanted to rescue the muslim jewish relations. Prophet Mohamed implemented the law.
- There is no message on the website you keep advertising: Islam is bla.bla.bla! Maybe you should explain why is it the fastest growing religion then? Is it the positive media coverage? Nope. Maybe we have 21 million missionaries knocking doors to convert people? Not that one too…..We are happy with our religion. Just be happy with yours and move on..

AK