Xena,
I would think that people of all faiths should decry the bombing of civilians. It mostly slipped the media’s attention, but about 60 people died in Iraq on the weekend due to bombings (mainly suicide bombings), but the people behind these bombings in Iraq are normally called “insurgents”, and not “terrorists”. However whether they are “insurgents” or “terrorists”, or just “bombers”, they kill innocent people.

There is a long way to go before the people who are responsible for the bombings in London are finally brought to trial and convicted. The bombings were obviously well co-ordinated, quite sophisticated, and would require money, expertise and planning. So hopefully the people who are brought to trial will include the big fish, as well as the little fish.

XENA
"Islam"'s problem with image is not because of an insane minority, do you realize you are comdemning their prophet when you say that ?

How do you describe this ==>

(the Holy Prophet). He commanded about them, and (thus) their hands and feet were cut off and their eyes were gouged and then they were thrown in the sun, until they died.

I won't repeat all my post from the "nutbags" thread, but you can read it if you like.

The problem with Islams image is "Islam" as practiced by its founder, and who's example the 'loony bombers' are following. If you doubt me, read the Quran, Hadith,Histories. Tracing a direct line from MOhammed down to the present day in terms of treatment of non Muslims, specially Jews. (moderate Muslims are nice people, but they are in denial about the reality of their own faith and history)

This tells it all ==> http://islam.com/reply.asp?id=477507&ct=9&mn=477507

Mostly quotes from the Quran justifiying murder of Jews.

Here is an up to date 'sermon' by a leading Saudi (the home of Islam) Imam Shaikh Saad Al-Buraik

2002

Muslim Brothers in Palestine, do not have any mercy neither compassion on the Jews, their blood, their money, their flesh. Their women are yours to take, legitimately. God made them yours. Why don't you enslave their women? Why don't you wage jihad? Why don't you pillage them?

I've not been able to verify personally the source for this, but it does reflect the Quranic and Hadith and Histories reports of Mohammeds actions.

Is it any wonder that the likes of Waleed Ali and the Islamic Council of Victoria are willing to spend $400,000 for high priced (Jewish? thats curious) lawyers to silence to Christian pastors who tell it like it is.
The truth can be hurtful

BOAZ_David, I feel you are undermining your ability to be taken seriously in these forums though your constant insistance on your specific point of view, which apart from anything else, is often insulting towards people who have different beliefs to yourself. I hope this is not coming across rude, but it seems as if a little less scripture, and a little more thought, might help you make your points, which of course you are quite entitled to, in ways which might come across as less dogmatic.

Now, topic.

While I think it is important, in some regards, for 'moderate' muslim people to come out against these attacks, mainly as a PR issue- it is in a way rather sad that we need to think this- surely outrage and disgust at the killing of innocent people should be expected from all, and not need to be explicitly stated? Whether people are from a religious or ethnic or national background which has been unfortunatly associated with various crimes of late, should not automatically suggest any guilt on their behalf. Afterall, we do not judge all Irish people as automatically needing to denouce the IRA to absolve themselves of responsibility, for example.

Xena and Robert

I do recall the support the North American Irish community lavished on the IRA in the 1970’s – including financing the shipping of weapons between Boston and Cork and Southampton on the QE2 – the fact is the IRA could operate with impunity and hold fund raising events in bars and walk through the streets of New York yet the British Consul General could not fly the Union Jack outside his office for fear of bombing.

It was only recently, following another IRA outrage – the murder of a fellow Irishman in which the IRA "officials" offered to execute the perpetrators, that the mood changed and Americans started to recognise the IRA for what it is – a terrorist organisation with drug and criminal links to Iran, Afghanistan, Libya and with other promoters of insurrection and mayhem.

In the 1970’s and 1980’s and 1990’s - did we hear the Bishop of Boston condemning the IRA? – did the Pope stand up and denounce them ? – No!

That someone is silent on a matter does not imply they are in support of a particular cause.

I would suggest anyone who thinks ordinary Muslims need to “prove” themselves by denouncing terrorists because terrorists claim to act in the name of their religion should demand the same of Catholics regarding the IRA hiding behind the supposed suffering of Catholic Irishmen.

Such stupid prejudice only increases minorities disaffection and the opportunity for terrorists to find more recruits.

I for one will not insult my Muslim or Catholic or any other category of friends by making such a presumptuous demand.

Laurie – we echo what each other has written.

Irfan, I not against you; I am against ideology of Muhammad (actually it is he who is against you). Most muslims do not read the holy scriptures in their own language and, on average, 50% of muslims in islamic countries are illiterate. Most do not know the story of Muhammad and horrific details of his immorality. There is an unhealthy air of mystique on the scriptures and on life of Muhammad, but this is changing; people are reading. I was shocked when I read about it for the first time. In fact, I could barely sleep at night for imagining those 100s men he lined up and one by one Muhammad and his men chopped off their heads as they fell into the graves they had previously dug. I felt ill when I read about limb choppings, nails driven into eyes, the marriage consummation with a 9 year old, the taking of women and all the other gory details of Muhammad's life. When you read it you would be horrified about who you and your parents and grandparents have been following and honouring. I was also deeply affected by the way he stoned that poor single mother to death and left poor child orphan. As a mother I find that abominable. Do you really believe that a 'God' could sanction all this torture and death and such severe punishments on people who were simply being human? I decided that if I were to be against terrorism, I had to stop following a terrorist. Both muslims and nonmuslims must get under that veil of obscurity and mystique of Islam and look at it for what it is.
Fellow_Human, I completely agree with Philo, and he has also pointed out Islamic phenomenon that most westerners are unaware of; Taqquia; Deception. The reason those sites get a lot of advertising is because they have a large amount of visitors. People are finding out the truth about Islam and Prophet Muhammad, and it’s a healthy sign.

Col_Rouge; the IRA were acting in OPPOSITION to Christ’s teachings, what has the Pope got to apologise for

BD,

Again, the same repetitive misleading comments (see my posting to you on Nutbags, Macarthysm.. )
You constantly fail to isolate the legal system in Islam (which is your example on harsh punishment to war treason) from the spiritual message. I have no problems with you comparing but please do it likes to likes. Under your new Judea Christianity slogan, please compare crime punishment in the Koran to the Old testament: Stone the disobedient children to death, lock your wife out of the household during PMS, don’t touch her for 40 days if she have a baby boy (becomes an 80 days if it’s a baby girl).

Jumping from religion to politics, Muslims, Christians and Jews lived together for centuries and fought together against the Nazis and colonialism. Palestinians issues are related to land conflict and they get easily manipulated into violence because they grew up watching everything taken away from them. The fact still remains that best treatment Jews ever had was by Arab Muslims and Arab Christians.

Selective ethics: you wear the ethics hate until it comes to the CTF Pastor and all of a sudden it is OK to be unethical as long you are legal!! It is OK for a Pastor to twist fact (while knowing the truth), mislead good people who come to church and donate for charity because it is legal!! Wow. isn’t that the ‘end justifies the means’ theory where Hitler and BinLaden are great followers?

Anyway, Australians are smart good and come to us to understand our faith rather than being mislead by their ‘misleaders of the faith’. Keep up the good work and spend the poor people donations on hate websites.
I am proud to be an Aussie and proud to be Muslim and I pray to for God to save the country from people like the Bin Laden and ‘fake love filled people’.

Aisha, you said earlier you are a Muslim then agnostic then your response re the IRA proves you are a Christian. The only ‘Deception’ here is you my fellow sister in humanity.

Regards

Ash (the Other!)