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The Forum > Article Comments > To London Muslims - speak out or be condemned for your silence > Comments

To London Muslims - speak out or be condemned for your silence : Comments

By Irfan Yusuf, published 8/7/2005

Irfan Yusuf sends a message to London Muslims in the wake of the terrorist bombings across the city.

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Dear Irfan

Well mate, you have finally had your wish granted! Press reveals that some 500 Muslim Clerics have united in London and spoken out against the 7/7 bombings. But what will this do Irfan? What positive outcomes do you predict for the ordinary every-day person (of whatever religious thrust)?

I visited your Ozzie-Mozzie site (spelling? sorry). Your recent post really moved me. My goodness you are very frustrated with your own people - and no wonder! Where do you get support?

Why do people of Muslim faith call themselves Muslim Australians? Surely they are Ausralian people of Muslim faith? I do not call myself a C of E Australian! I am an Australian first!

Peace to you in your time of frustration
And chin up to all at this bloody awful time
Kay
Posted by kalweb, Tuesday, 19 July 2005 8:30:15 PM
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Garra,
I had a long spiel for BD, tired as I am of his prattle. But your comment hit the nail on the head. You do have a way with words. Well done.

As for you BD, your blindness to your own arrogance is quite amazing. So you spent some time in a Muslim country? So you ‘experienced’ the Muslim faith. And that makes you an expert how? Have you studied it as hard and with as much open heart passion as one of Islamic faith? I’d think not. You start from a point of view and everything you consider from there is tainted. We aren’t ignorant of your position. But your credibility is nothing. You are biased, simple. What you call facts and correct about the Bible (your Holy book) is also SPIN.

Xena,
Be assured that religious fever is not indicative of all religious faiths. I hold to Christian beliefs (more because it’s what I’m comfortable with than anything else – I’d consider spirituality a non-Dogmatic thing myself) but freely accept that others see different. I see no problem with each individual choosing their path of belief (or not to believe). I was taught by my church that the actions of an individual are much more important and acceptance/tolerance are the only keys to heaven (if it exists!). I would ignore the comments from the far right. They only add to their own demise (hopefully sooner than later).
Posted by JustDan, Tuesday, 19 July 2005 11:11:45 PM
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Irfan… You think I hate you, do you? All I know about you is what is what you write, and there is nothing there for me to hate you. Besides, hate is hard work. If you want to find hate, look at Muslim web sites or the Imans throughout the Islamic world. Try to understand that if a person does not agree with Islam and argues against it as a belief, it is not hate. This is called “freedom of speech” because of “differences of opinion”.

What I feel towards Muslims can best be described as “despair”. As for Islam, the proper word would be “contempt”. I dislike it as a belief; but even that is not the problem. The issue is not bad theology but that Islam is dangerous to the health of progressive societies. Have you ever asked yourself what is wrong with Islam? Why do Muslims have so many problems other groups or religions don’t seem to have? Google “Muslims” “Europe” and “crime” or “rape” or substitute any other country. Have you ever seen a Buddhist having to say “Buddhism is a religion of peace”? Why is crime among Hindu immigrants a small fraction of that among Muslims in England? Do you ever wonder why so many Muslims want out of Islamic countries? Remember those poor 400 souls that drowned off Australia several years ago… They were from every Islamic country on the map. Tell me, Irfan, do you have a clue?

As Muslim move to the West they use our freedoms to subvert our institutions. I quote Tony Parkinson (The Age):

“The compact under multiculturalism is that each community within a society must have the freedom to sustain its own identity, traditions and culture. But there is a quid pro quo and that involves universal acceptance of a broad system of shared values…. Multiculturalism is at a moment of truth. The drift from melting-pot altruism into salad-bowl separatism has morphed into something more sinister: the existence within Western cultures of a hostile religious sect that renounces absolutely the principles on which our societies are structured.”
Posted by kactuz, Wednesday, 20 July 2005 12:51:09 AM
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(Continuing…)

All I ask is equality and honesty. I ask nothing from Muslims that I don’t ask of myself. I want Muslims to have the same rights as I have. You have the right to speak out, so I have the right to say things that you may not like. I want non-Muslims and women and other groups to have exactly the same rights as Muslims do in Islamic dominated societies - and freedom and democracy would be nice too. However, don’t hold your breath. Islam is oppressive by nature and cannot accept the notions of equality and freedom of conscience. Therefore, Muslims practice hypocrisy on a grand scale. (No compulsion in religion, but we get to kill you if you leave Islam!) . I have taken a hard look at Islam and it is a fragile illusion. The Quran is a mess of contradictions and superstitions.

Under no circumstances would I ever follow a man like Mohammed. Have you really considered the life of this man? Can you honestly look at his life and say that he is anything but a hypocrite. Tell me, how can you follow a person does this? (see verse 261 at http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html). To a normal human being this one reference would be enough to end all discussion. But no, Muslims are morally blind. So I guess there is no reason to drag in references (written by Muslims themselves) to slavery, executions, sexual misconduct, special rules for himself, inaccuracies in the Koran, the issues of abrogation, etc… I could write about each of these trespasses, by why bother? These don’t matter because Muslim have faith – blind, stupid faith (which is not against the law) and they refuse to see the obvious.

Irfan, let’s try a little experiment. Read the verse mentioned above (verse 261) and tell me if the person who did that is a good man. Just say ‘yes’ or ‘no.’ You don’t have to respond to anything else here, just write one of two words: Yes or No. Can you do it?

Kactuz
Posted by kactuz, Wednesday, 20 July 2005 1:03:15 AM
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Kaz,
look at the detail. Yes they were killed. They committed murder. Hhhmmm.... seems a few Christian countries do that to. Yes, they were tortured. And about that time (or near enough) Christians tortured a heck of a lot of people during a little incident called the Inquisition. Then there were the Salem witch hunts. Seems Christianity forgets it's past and focuses on that of others. Would Muslims do exactly the same thing today as the writings say? Another and probably more pertinent question. Over to you Ifran...
Posted by JustDan, Wednesday, 20 July 2005 9:30:48 AM
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BD you state:

>>You are either intellectually dishonest, maliciously selecting 'sugar' to coat the truth, or, you just plain 'don't get it' about the real world which has just seen 56 dead bodies in London.>>

Unfortunately BD, it is you who doesn’t get it.

I made the quotes I have in a vain effort to reveal to you the hypocritical nature of your posts.

I am not a religious scholar; however I know enough to find the worst of Christianity (praise be to Google). I don’t need to locate the worst of Islam – you have so successfully made that your obsession.

I do not grant any religion ‘warm affection’ that you claim. I respond to those in kind. All I receive from you and Philo is derogatory rude, dismissiveness. Not one poster who claims to be Islamic has attempted to deride me, even when I have made it abundantly clear that I am an atheist.

All I have done is prove what many people already know is that good and bad can be found in all religions. Even in the philosophy of Buddhism – although in a competition on atrocities it ranks way below Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and a few non religious ‘isms’ such as fascism and communism.

I believe a person’s (please note non gender specific) actions reveals the truth of that person. BD a campaign of unceasing malignment of Islam clearly reveals your worth. If there is a Jesus, then he must weep for you.

continued
Posted by Xena, Wednesday, 20 July 2005 10:50:06 AM
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