If you have time, read this article
9/11 And The Sport of God at http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0909-36.htm

it answered a few things for me...

it ends by saying

"Christian realists aren't afraid to love. But just as the Irishman who came upon a brawl in the street and asked, "Is this a private fight or can anyone get in it?" we have to take that love where the action is. Or the world will remain a theatre of war between fundamentalists".

Kill unbelievers or live a servant life?
Abraham sought homeland for family, he never coveted land or control over people. His generosity toward Lot’s family and fellow citizens is noteworthy. However when Joshua was establishing Israel he destroyed all who worshipped polytheistic gods. Sound familiar? Mahomet likewise, was about gaining exclusive territory to establish shari’ah laws to govern belief and behaviour. Similarly the Holy Roman Empire calling itself Christian was about gaining territory and not about ones personal relationship to God, in fact they stifled individual conscience and intellectual conviction by indoctrination. They tortured intellectual dissidents by burning them alive. This behaviour is totally unlike the message of Jesus; compare Lesson 2 on God’s attitude toward unbelievers. “He sends rain upon the just and unjust,” by feeding and allowing all to prosper by his grace.

Lesson 7 self defense:
Jesus accusers:
John 5:16 Because Jesus was doing things on the Sabbath, the
Jews persecuted him.
17 Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this
very day, and I, too, am working.”
18 For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not
only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling
God his own Father, making himself equal with God

His arrest:
Matthew 26: 47, Judas, one of the twelve, came, with a great multitude with swords and staves, from the priests and elders of the Temple. 48 Now he betrayed him with a sign, saying, “Whoever I shall kiss, that is he: take him”. 49 And Judas came to Jesus, and said, “Hail, Rabbi”; and kissed him. 50 Jesus said unto him, “Friend, do that for which you have come”. Then the [Jewish elders] came and laid hands on Jesus, and took him. 51 One of them that was with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and smote the servant of the high priest, and struck off his ear. 52 Then Jesus said unto him, “Put up again thy sword into its place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.”

RANIER
I had a read of that article. I see where the author is coming from, but I hope the answers you feel were answered don't make you think you have arrived at the end of the issue just yet. There is more.

<<Suddenly we were immersed in the pathology of a "holy war" as defined by fundamentalists on both sides>>

Did you note that Robertson on this occasion, backed up by Falwell, pointed to GOD's judgement. (critical point) The Bin Ladins of this world and of Islam will be flying the planes and planting the bombs in direct obedience to their scriptures.

The mention of the judgements on the various 'ites' in the Old testament referred to in the article, left out an important point.
They were judged, (the attacks were in fact delayed as they had not yet reached the point of no return, by their own life choices)

Those events were not 'teaching of doctrine' nor were they in any sense authorizations of a general nature for embarking on war by Jews or Christians.

A recurring theme in the Old Testament is the judgement OF GOD..... who used 'the nations' to judge Israel. "Nebadchadnezzer king of Babylon, MY SERVANT" says God, destroyed and exiled the Jews.

So in conclusion, for Christians, the only possible understanding of human conflict is that God is the judge, not man. Islam, being a political movement as well as spiritual, provides for military action directly in the name of God.

So, there should be no 'fundamentalist' Christian movement for war.
At least, not one based on Scripture. I'll grant that some conservative Christians may be involved in trying to influence the White house, (The Emperor, in Romans 13 technospeak) but there can never be a legitimate 'Christian' armed military attack on anyone else.
Cheers

BD,

God bless you and keep you always on the right path : )

Skid Matrix,

Please move from the narrow definition of tribalism. It is neither related to race nor place of birth. Tribalism is when a person/group loses all sorts of reason and feel so threatened by ‘difference’ in opinion / religion/ position that they can only resort to violence. It is what kills 12-19,000 americans for disagreeing over religion, relationships and also what killed 52 Italian soccer fans in England.

The term “I did that because of my faith’ was used by the assasins of Sadat, Rabin and everyone who acted horribly throughout history towards an individual, a group or a race used the same statement; Hitler’s persecution of Jews was driven by his Christian Jihad and not Islam (Check German government archives, Hitlers’ speeches).
Freedom of speech never came with a security guarantee. Its is a risk that people have to take and accept for being leaders, reformists..etc

As for your ‘secular Judeo-christian democracy myth, please read more on world’ systems analysis and theories like Dr Emmanuel Wallerstein: Today’s democracy was founded by the French revolution who forced the separation of Religion and state which we, as modern day muslims, trying to achieve in the modernisation of Muslims dominated country. Just thought I would stop you before your “Judeo Christian culture takes credit of building the pyramids as well.

Finally, stop writing like a 12 year old and take it easy.. its only opinion sharing site on how do we all improve our lives.

Peace,

How Muslims treat Jews.

Jews were being told by the Palestinian Authority that if we leave our Synagogues in tack in Gaza they will destroy them. It brings to mind the history of these Islamic monsters and their lack of respect towards our Holy Places and our Bible (Tenach). During the period of 1948 through 1967 they destroyed over 40 Synagogues in the Old City of Jerusalem, turning many of them into toilets. But then we don’t have to have a long memory to remember what they did to Joseph’s Tomb and other Holy Places in the past 5 years.

In contrast we allow them to not only live among us in Israel but we also give them the same government medical care given to the Jewish population and all the other welfare benefits of which most of them take full advantage of. As you travel through the countryside of Israel you will notice thousands of Arab villages, I might add where Jews are not welcome. But if you go to any of our shopping centers or cities you will find Arabs everywhere you look and they feel safe, after all we don’t wrap bombs around ourselves to kill them, they are greeted by the Jews with a big Shalom (peace).

A small section in the Old City of Jerusalem is the Jewish Quarters and in this section of the Old City you can find Moslem Mosques not only are they not destroyed but kept in good shape, viewed by thousands of tourist each day but seldom are they ever told what they are looking at as they walk by

Fellow_Human,

Answering your post Saturday, 17th:
Quote, “The only difference between the Islamic version and the Christian version of Jesus is whether he was God/Son of God”.

The Qur’anic account of events surrounding Mary’s virgin conception of Jesus was based upon documents circulated in Alexandria 600BC. The Roman Church formulated the idea that Jesus conception made him God; that the sperm was from God, so on this basis it made him a Son of God. The concept God without human sperm created Jesus in Mary's womb is spurious, and Mahomet unsuspecting included it in the Qur’an [Qur’an 3: 40 – 48].

Jesus conception without human sperm is the foundation of the doctrine that God's son was born as a man. That God implanted Jesus in Mary’s womb. This spurious inclusion undermines the authority of the Qur’an as factual. It appeals to Roman Catholics who formulated the doctrine, that Jesus miraculous conception made him a Son of God. It is a misrepresentation of incarnation that makes God human, rather than God being fully revealed in humanity.

God is revealed in spiritual terms by godly behaviour, events of the miraculous, qualities of character, wisdom and attitude. The apostle John identifies this in his Gospel 1: 12 –14, and in John 3: 5 – 8. This identifies what being born of God as a Son of God means. John in his letter 1 John 1: 1 – 11, uses the term spermatozoa in a figurative way on how we are born of the seed of God. The seed is the Word of God that changes us to the image of God and motivates faith and devotion.

The Trinitarian doctrine was established in the 3rd century by the Roman Church to cope with spatial concepts of God being revealed as a man. However God is not revealed as a man, but through a man Christ Jesus. God is expressed in moral character and not as flesh and blood. Catholics misrepresent God in flesh and blood in the communion sacraments. The revelation of God is spiritual not physical.