I have to adopt F.H.s position on this matter.

I think brother Philo is bringing the "orthodox" view of Christ to us here, though, I was under the impression that the orthodox view had the same as mainstream evangelical/reformed view re Jesus miraculous conception. The difference I understood was that Orthodox would not say Christ 'proceeded from the Father AND the Spirit'. Guess I need to look further into this.

So, I'm a bit confused as to which "Orthodoxy" Br Philo is presenting here.

On one issue we can be confident. If we limit our understanding of Christ to what scripture says, and not what it does not say, we can be on safe ground. It is up to us to put all the evidence together, and work out in our own minds where we stand. The Church councils have been helpful on much of this, no need to re-invent the wheel, but too much focus on them, leads one to a rather dry and formal 'doctrinal' Jesus rather than a Living Saviour who lives in our hearts and minds each day by His Spirit.

The gospels are pretty simple really, the kingdom of God and the 'king' and our relationship to Him.... repentance, or rejection.

We are also on safe ground in 1 Corinthians 15:1-5

1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand
...3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]:

that Christ died
for our sins
according to the Scriptures,
4that he was buried,
that he was raised on the third day
according to the Scriptures,
5and that he appeared to Peter,[b] and
then to the Twelve. 6After that,
he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living

BD,
When I call myself orthodox monotheist I mean: I do not accept there are three persons in a Godhead. When we identify persons we isolate their personal spirit, their independent character. No such concept exists in God. I believe there is but one God who is manifest in one Spirit. The Spirit of the eternal father, was the same spirit manifest in Christ Jesus, and manifest in his spiritual children. There are not three seperate independent personal spirits that uphold a trinity.

Trinity diversifies identity which is contrary to the emphasis of Christ Jesus himself. There is but one Spirit the Spirit of God manifset in attitudes of character, acts over nature, wisdom and revelation.

Jesus as a human did have spatial recognition and a human spirit but this does not define him as God. He constantly revealed his humanity and spoke of himself as son of man, by his appeals to God to work a miracle through acts in his presence. His words were from God, his acts were from God, without God being manifest through his humanity he could do nothing; He states this himself.

Our recognition of God in him is not the focus on his humanity but the admiration of character, acts and wisdom that expressed God. It is the theologians attempt to give God seperate spatial identity [i.e. A Father, a Son and A Holy Spirit] that has resulted in the doctrine of trinity. God is to be worshipped for how he was manifest in his servant Christ Jesus.

The name in Matthew 28: 19 is singular and identifies one - God, similarly the name in Isaiah 9: 6 refers to only one - God.

Fellow_Human,
In your post you state: "One key difference however, the word “spirit from God” is used across the Quran for blessed special human beings: ie Abraham, good believers, etc." You seem to be identifying the persons own spirit as from God implanted at birth. In this case there are many spirits. Whereas I identify the character of God is other than the human spirit and is reborn in the repentant heart who follows the word of God. The human spirit seeks selfpreservation, while the spirit of God seeks the Glory of God.

Both the Torah and Hebrew scriptures indicate we were made in moral character to resemble the holy nature of God. "Let us make man in our image", Genesis 1: 26 - 27, 5: 1, 9: 6; and the teachings of Christ [Messiah] Jesus calls us to be holy in character even as God. God is understood by the absolute purity of his character. Even the Qur'an gives God many names that define character.

Quote, "God talks about himself as super entity with nothing of its creatures associated to him or resemble him."

Jesus identifies that to be "born of God" is not our natural human spirit, but born of the "Holy Spirit" John 1: 12 - 14. The Holy Spirit is only one Spirit that is very God. What you define has reference to the natural human spirit. Quote, "The spirit from God does not make them God nor divine."

Human flesh and blood does not make us godly, only the single spirit that is God incarnate. Ephesians 1: 4, 30; Heb 6: 4.
____________________________________

The nature of the antichrist:
1. Posesses the spirit of Cain who killed his brother.
2. Claims to be the true revelation from God that indwelt the Zealot Jews.
3. Jesus warned would come from the desert and claim to be the true Messiah who will deliver the true believers from paganism nationalism [Matthew 4: 1 - 11].
4. Will deceive most of the spiritual world at the end of the age.
5. Violence will be the nature of his campaign.

Philo,

Thank you for explaining your opinions and faith, I wasn't aware that you consider the Holy Spirit as God. I can see the differences between Roman Catholicism and your sect.

Most 'Anti Christ' stories in some of the hadith are similar though they have no basis in the Quran.

Peace,

Philo.... let me be adventurous :)

are u a Jehovah's witness ?

Cheers
Boaz

BOAZ_David,
I am not a JW.

I have carefully researched the scripture for myself without commentary and can only conclude the spirit manifest upon the life of Jesus was the Spirit of God. If I am a witness to God, I'm a witness to the fact that God was in Jesus Christ reconciling sinners to Himself.

God does not have dimentional or spatial form and no one has ever seen God [John 1: 18], not even the disciples. What the disciples saw was the Glory of God revealed, his grace and truth demonstrated in the life and actions of Jesus. Jesus a flesh and blood human being has faithfully declared God. The Spirit that was manifest in Jesus was the true expression of eternal God. This does not make his humanity God, his humanity was a chosen vehicle through which the Spirit of God demonstrated His character. Jesus had to yeild his spirit to the will of God, "not my will but your will be done". A careful reading of the apostle John will give the relationship between Jesus and God [or Father as Jesus addressed God].