Good piece Waleed I saw you on SBS and can see the inspiration for it. I don't know why people think Muslims are like paper dolls!

Great article. I'm already wincing at the thought of the bigotted posts set to appear here though...

The problem does not lie in the practise of Muslims of their religion. The problem happens when Islam is adopted as the basis of State law as it does not accomodate the democratic rights for others. It is the control freaks that threaten, "believe me of face threat". No true Islamic State can accomodate difference of religion. Observe the treatment of persons expressing religious dissent in Islamic communities, i.e. Salmon Rushdie.

Philo's logic is somewhat askew.

There is no logical conclusion that those attending a mosque or other Muslim organisation always wish to establish a theocratic government in Australia. I'm confident only a minority of Muslims would want this.

I'd liken Philo's fears to the Cubs or Brownies wishing to make their peculiar (but cute) customs mandatory in Australia.

I think Waleed is correct in effect saying that the PM would have been on mission impossible if he had sought a representative group of Muslims – witness the shambles earlier this week on Jennie Brockie’s Insight SBS. programme.

However I do think we should pull Waleed up on a couple of points:

Firstly, it is simply untrue to suggest that “the Muslims in Australia are as diverse as the world itself”. I remind Waleed that in the world today there are Christians Buddhists, etc, etc and the differences between such groups and Moslems are far, far greater that those within the Islamic community who after all are united by the call of the Minaret, despite what other differences they might have.

Secondly, Waleed advances the oft repeated claim that “Muslim Australia has, largely, come to feel alienated by the political conversation in this country”, seeking by so doing to advance the Muslim cause. Many sub groups within Australia, including other immigrant communities, the Christian Church, etc can say similar things. Muslims have to learn to fit in as best they can like the rest of us. They should not expect special privileges, and they do have to work hard at fitting in, so long as some within their community continue to hate the rest of us and remain willing to lend comfort and succour to the would be, could be Islamist terrorists living amongst them (and therefore us).

You are right. The level of intra-cultural variability is so high that assuming group homogeneity among those who declare themselves to be connected to or having shared values with other people who define themselves as Muslim, is absurd.

Similarly I believe that stereotyping a group based on specific cases that reflect individual and isolated behaviour (and nothing more) because the people or individuals involved in that case declare or feel an affiliation with others who define themselves as a belonging to the same group, is irrational.