Waleed

Australian Muslims need to develop a substantial degree of trust with other Australians and the Australian Government - not the other way around as your final paragraph suggests.

Boaz_DAVID, what are you on about exactly? Not only is it hard to make sense of what you are saying, but you've thrown in an aggressive, attacking post amidst what I thought was some really interesting debating here. It has been a great discussion, but in regards to your posting - where does National Socialism fit in? And the whole thing about seeking Christ's forgiveness and all? What I would like to ask is this: Does it really matter?

Do we really need to judge the religion to decide whether we accept the people? Is there anything in Islam that is, in any real sense, different to any other religion we tolerate in Australia? What concerns me is that outside a forum like this, where people who are knowledgeable about the topic eloquently discuss their point of view, outside in the electorates, people know very little of Islam. What I think is utterly fantastic about people like Waleed Aly, is that finally we have an Islamic figure in our media, who can communicate with the masses.

This is not an attack, but listening to Muslim Clerics stumble with the English language when trying to explain an issue hinders their perception in the greater community. Waleed Aly is demonstrating quite a talent before the cameras and in print media and I really think the biggest plus out of all of this, is this unearthing of eloquent Muslim communicators that the Australian public can listen to and understand.

After that, make up whatever decision you like about the issue.

The Article is sort of right.
Many people of all cultures and races have become Muslim in the past. Although it is true that a large amount of Muslims are Arab, some are of African descent, European Descent, or East Asian descent. They all interpret the Koran in different ways. So, yeah, a representative sample of muslims is probably impossible. You might as well look for good representation amongst Christians, or Hindus or any other religion (some of which are far more diverse).

But I must say that I respectfully disagree with Waleed when he claims that the Australian Government must show that it is with the Muslim community. By providing Citizenship and state services, I think that the government as already done that. What is needed is for the Muslim community to announce in a "One Big Statement" kind of thing, that although it might disagree on politics, the Muslim community fully backs the people of this country and the freedoms given in the Consitution. I don't think they have done that yet. If they do, I'm sure that their image would improve.

I understand that there's racism on both sides of this issue, but that can be overcome quite easily, although some effort must be made by both sides. You can't expect results if you don't really work for it.

Waleed Aly simply reiterates to those who know, that certain ethnic groups will never mix in because they are just too racist and ethnocentric to see past their noses. As if every other community isn't diverse! There are many different European communities and Asian communities in Australia, they don't all need some preliminary check in with their particular ethnic boss before listening to and obeying the wishes of the wider Australian community. The fact that all the mosques are ethnically divided says everything, coupled with how they apparently all need representatives with the same coloured skin to speak for their communities - bigots! The NSW government has Italian-Australians in the key ministerial positions, I don't have to be worried that they will do "special ethnic favours" for only Italians, why should I be, we are all living in Australia now. Why would anyone even think otherwise unless Waleed is saying that a Lebanese only cares and does for the Lebanese,and so on.
Also, why condemn the ASIO raids? It uncovered an incredibly stupid bigot named Omran Bakri, and the only reason people who are guilty sometimes don't get charged is because our legal system is over complicated to protect citizens. However, Bakri should think himself lucky we don't run on the simplistic "sharia" as we would have cut his head off just for "appearing" seditious.
As for you bagging the mandatory detention, what does it specifically have to do with muslims anyway? Besides, I read the various HREOC reports into detention centres and the only "hell" in there is that created by the muslim culture. Single women have to stay locked in their rooms as young muslim men pressure them for sex. Muslim clerics from the Australain community can't be bothered to visit and perform religious duties. Why does the muslim community pretentd they care about muslims in detention when none of them help the ones who are there, it is only other left-wing Austaralians who do anything, and in my opinion there are worse things to worry about like kids on drugs at Cabramatta and the homeless.

A couple of things (from the Lateline muslim forum) no one seemed to pick up on.
But anyway, at that forum (Lateline) a muslim women called "sister" something, done a freudian slip when she admitted that most muslim mothers she knows despise their children having Australain or European freinds, she said they should just inspect their families closer to see if they are on the "same level".
Isn't this racism? Imagine if some Anglo mother from Campletown said it. Imagine. But the audience missed it, even Brockie missed it.
Another point is when a concerned Australian man made the observation that even after 88 Australians were killed in Bali no muslims were attacked besides maybe being called a name, then he went on to call the Hizb-ut-tahir representative a bigot (Hizb-ut-tahir are an Islamic group dedicated to turning the world into a muslim caliphate under sharia law, they support the stoning to death of gays and so-called adulterers), who clearly is a bigot, but the majority of the muslim audience laughed at him as though his words were out of place. A neo-nazi or just a white supremecist doesn't even say or espouse half the things some of these muslim groups like Hizb-ut-tahir espouse, but could you imagine what would happen if a white supremecist group did say such stuff? That they want the whole world to be their way. The most they ever do is demand the right to have their nation for their culture but they still get banned etc.
When the negro-muslim-american said to Jenny Brockie that his comments (which were that no muslim can be friends with kafir(us)) were taken out of context like a "soundbite", the whole muslim audience clapped and laughed in agreeance. To the average Australian out there, this tells us glowingly that the avarage muslim in the community doesn't think that bigotry is bigotry, somehow being muslim overrides it. This is what needs to change Waleed, the muslim racism towards everyone else, their hostility. Why do we only have this problem with the muslim community and not say the Greeks or Koreans?

ISSAN
Firstly, my post was primarily directed to the articles Author.
But
if you don't see the connection between my statement about National Socialism and Islam, please re-read my post, I made the connection specific and clearly. I'll briefly repeat here.
National Socialism cannot succeed unless people accept its founder, in order to progress the movement, an adherant must process known information about Hitlers activity and behavior re Jews and many others. They need to psychologicaly 'justify' such behavior before they can participate in the movement or they will experience cognitive dissonance (headache, conflict). A muslim must do the same in regard to the behavior of Mohamed. This places a 'knowledgeable' muslim smack bang in the middle of justifying Mohamed's atrocities, and participating in a movement which continues to rationalize/justify/commit them to this day. (911, beheadings,bombings ?) If this does not concern you, then perhaps you might like to re-think this ? If you desire documentary references I can provide them.(Already done repeatedly in the forum)

So, in response to your question "Is there anything about Islam.... worse than other religions" the answer is a resounding yes. Unless you can accept that women are only worth 50% of a man when it comes to legal testimony, and numerous other issues.

BURNSY, I looked in vain for reports of the sexual abuse you referred to, any source ?

UNCONQUERED SON. I have to agree with your criticism of Ali's position that the Aust Gov has to show support for the Islamic community... sounds very much like tail wagging dog to me. Other way around would be considered 'normal'

None of these problems would arise (at would at least be minimised)if we screened people coming here more effectively, with strategic questions on culture, religion and society requiring a committment from applicants, prior to coming. Citizenship/Residency would also be conditional on them having a clean slate in regard to such issues.
(which would include activism against government policy, including detention of illegal would be migrants, foreign policy etc)

The best defense against powerful but evil ideas is a confident personal committment to Christ.