Jayb, i hear you but western culture was happier, healthier, wealthier & less pushy when almost all of us were practising christians.

runner quite correct, but capitalism worked better when almost all of them were christians it has been corrupted by communism recently & needs repair.

islam & communism = slavery; enlightened, conservative, protesting christians = freedom & democracy:

//western culture was happier, healthier, wealthier & less pushy when almost all of us were practising christians//

Good one, imperformingmarvellousparody. When the Black Death swept through Europe in the mid 14th century, religious fervour increased: it didn't save people from the plague (antibiotics are effective against plague bacteria; prayer is not). It did encourage them to carry out mass exterminations of Jews, gypsies, lepers, beggars and foreigners... the usual suspects. So much for strong Christian belief making people less pushy.

Historically, the stronger Christian belief in days gone past was hopelessly ineffective in the fight against devastating diseases like smallpox, the plague, syphilis, diptheria, etc. Diseases that you don't hear about people dying of any more (especially smallpox). Thanks to medical science, rather than prayer. Mary Baker Eddy was an idiot. When we figure out how to beat cancer, it's going to be because of scientific research, not because we've all got together to sing 'He's Got the Whole World in his Hands' and praise Jeebus.

When I first came to Australia, it was not a Western-consumerist culture. I was in fact attracted and excited by the fact that Australia was behind the rest of the world (and neighbours then still knew each other).

However, it since caught up.

And I am partly to blame, because the immigration department was looking for educated young people who would come and lead Australia to "progress" and while I didn't believe in that concept, I still had to make a living, so I was part of an aggregate of people that "advanced" Australia to where it is now.

It used to be a nice place. I can't tell whether this was due to Christianity because there were other Christian places, America for instance, and contrarily look there, oh dear...

Though Christmas is not on my calendar, I favour its religious aspects. However, at some stage, like bright white snow that melts into filthy brown slush, Christmas turned into an ugly consumerist "xmas".

So just as Australia is not purely a Western-consumerist society, nor are the Muslim countries purely Muslim. To complicate things, there is not one but many Muslim cultures (Lebanese are not Yemenite and Persians is not Indonesians) and they all have an eye on the West so even while on a break between a beheading and a rape, they drink... Coca Cola.

Suppose I were to take Jayb's advice and move to a Muslim country - what if then they, as Australia had before, swiftly convert to combine Western-consumerism and I'm left to endure both Westernism and Shariah at once? Runner is right, they too do drugs, they too are slaves to greed, lust and especially anger.

Well, the better culture shall win. I won't make any further guesses.

And here we should welcome our next Young-Australian-of-the-year, a Muslim:
http://www.australianoftheyear.org.au/honour-roll/?view=fullView&recipientID=1419&year=1960

Yutsie: (and neighbours then still knew each other).

Most of us still do. It's only in the Yuppie & Feral Suburbs that they don't.

Yutsie: America for instance, and contrarily look there, oh dear...

Please don't compare America with Australia. Anyway, it's only the Mid West Bible Belt that has the Religious Christian Weirdos. Australia maybe mostly Secular but it's Secular based on Christian Values.

Yutsie: Well, the better culture shall win. I won't make any further guesses.

You have avoided answering my question. And what, may I ask, in your humble opinion, is, "the better culture" (In order of appearance) Animism, Hinduism, Judism, Buddhism, Christianity, islam, Secularism or Atheism. Or any other, pray tell? Would you like to give a "straight," one or two word answer instead of a deflection.

yutsie: And here we should welcome our next Young-Australian-of-the-year, a Muslim:

Token moslem to appease moslems & Yuppies. Even total nutters are known to do really good stuff. They just get noticed for any bad stuff they do not the good.

Dear Jayb,

My ideal culture does not exist today, nor will it exist for 1000's of years to come, so you present me with the difficult question of choosing between lesser-evils.

Due to the Kali-Yuga age in which we live, each and every culture including those you mentioned, is beset with violence, greed, envy and lust, not necessarily in their theory, but in practice.

We should also pay attention to the word "better", which has at least two different meanings: one means "easier, more convenient and comfortable", the other means "more righteous, more virtuous".

All cultures are generally comfortable for those who spent their formative years in them. This does not necessary make them more virtuous.

I think we can agree that secularism is a failure. It is quite comfortable, especially for those who grew up in it and have the money, but it leads nowhere but the grave (well not even that because cremation is cheaper).

...and it's a winner. It even wins over many Muslims, Christians too.

So I've been thinking over this question for the last days and I take back what I wrote:

The better culture isn't going to win, not in the short term anyway. it's the more convenient culture that is winning, the one which requires no effort, no discipline, the culture of victim-hood where energy dissipates in a free fall.

Yes, one may glorify and reminisce the local religious-born culture, which is the Christian one in the case of Australia, but when facing its reality objectively, how much of the British/Australian culture was in fact religious? Yes they went through the motions and churches were the centre of social life, but they were rigid and coercive and often outright violent. The British inflicted horrific tortures on those who strayed, including the Australian convicts: was that "Christian"?

Same goes to Judaism and Islam and even Hinduism, my own faith. Pure religion is the same everywhere, only the cultures that form around it are different. Due to the dark age we live in, they have all been weighed in the balances and were found wanting.

Yutsie: We should also pay attention to the word "better", which has at least two different meanings: one means "easier, more convenient and comfortable", the other means "more righteous, more virtuous".

Deflection!! Navel gazing? The common meaning of the word in this case.

I'll try to make it easy for you. Given a choice of only two Cultures, islam or Christianity. Which would you choose?

Hinduism like Buddhism is a way of life rather than a Religion per se. They both have their local deities or spirits depending on the local peoples beliefs.

Dragging up what happened & how bad different Religions were hundreds of years ago is not a valid argument. I know Christianity had one final big bad fling 70 years ago & another small one 25 years ago but they weren't indicative of the whole of Christianity across the World.

We are only concerned with what is happening in the present. What is happening with islam is being taken World wide with the invasion of Western Countries by moslems. These people will take their violence & hatred of infidels with them wherever they go.

Hinduism, Buddhism & Christianity are a dam side more peaceful than islam any day of the week.