yutsie: . I am not similarly obliged to actively prevent all evil that is done by others.

So, if you knew about an islamic terrorist attack in Australia you wouldn't act to prevent it? Considering that you as a moslem (or moslem supporter) would consider non-moslems as haram anyway.

yutsie: O God, give us the serenity to accept what cannot be changed,

Are you intimating here that Australia becoming moslem is inevitable?

It'll be a cold day in Hell when that happens.

Dear Jay,

A non-Muslim Muslim-supporter considers him/herself as haram??

According to the minimalist definition of "Muslim", which I think is agreed between myself and Kactuz, I am not a Muslim-supporter (nor am I a Muslim), so while I personally, though not obliged, would still try preventing terrorist attacks if I can, I cannot speak for them.

Regarding "serenity to accept what cannot be changed", I referred to the treatment of non-Muslims in Muslim countries, nothing else!

No, I don't believe there's a chance of Australia becoming Muslim. Sydney perhaps could become an exception one day, but then the rest of Australians will leave it and build a big wall around it.

a moslem (or moslem supporter) would consider non-moslems as haram anyway.

Is there a problem with the way that’s worded? We are considered as harem by moslems.

Yutsie: Sydney perhaps could become an exception one day, but then the rest of Australians will leave it and build a big wall around it.

& fill it with water. ;-)

Dear Jayb,

<<Is there a problem with the way that’s worded?>>

As worded: "Considering that you as a moslem (or moslem supporter) would consider non-moslems as haram anyway.", anyone who is either a Muslim or a Muslim-supporter considers non-Muslims as haram.

So a person who is not a Muslim, but is a Muslim-supporter considers non-Muslims as haram, but being a non-Muslim he must consider himself/herself as haram. Interesting...

Oh, I see where you are coming from. OK.

Yutsie: but being a non-Muslim he must consider himself/herself as haram. Interesting.

I have no problem with being haram. It's a load of doodoo by a loony tunes religion anyway that has no business being in Australia. islam is incompatible with Australian values. Any sane persons values for that matter.

Dear Jayb,

Rather then starting a new discussion of what "Australian values" and/or "sane values" are, I simply say this:

Whatever values they hold is none of mine or your business, as long as they do not harm or threaten us.

To the extent that they do physically threaten us, we may in self-defence remove their bodies away from us (either to a far-off land or back to the elements) - but that would be the only grounds to do so, not their values, whatever they may be.