The Question of Aisha’s age 1 of 2

Quran does not support child marriage and Aisha was not a child when she married Muhammad (Saw).

BASIC FACT 1: Aisha’s age of 9 years when she was married to Muhammad (Saw) is reported by ONE source ONLY against a host of sources reporting that age from 14 to 21 years.

BASIC FACT 2: Marrying a 9 year old girl was not an Arab practice even in the period in question.

BASIC FACY 3: There should have been a surprise, dislike or protest recorded in that time if Aisha was 9 years old. A complete absence of any of this conclusively shows that she was much older than the reported 9 years of age at the time of the marriage.

ON THE ONLY SOURCE [Bukhari (d 870 ad)]

• The age of 9 years was reported on narration of one person (Hisham ibn urwah) ONLY. He is one of the hundreds of people recorded as narrators of Hadith;

• Hisham lived in Madina first 71 year of his life, and NO ONE from Medina narrates the age of 9 years to Bukhari or a number of other Hadith collectors. Hisham experienced memory problems in his old age, and has been widely observed to have reported incidents inconsistent with historical facts when he was in Iraq. Scholars have warned against his narrations during his old age.

Continued ..

NC,

Again and again, I have to point out that I was asking a question, not making a declaration: I did NOT state that the Koran was so backward that it supported child marriage, I simply asked if it did. Do you understand the difference between one and the other ?

That's a question by the way, not a declaration: whether or not you CAN understand the difference will be seen in your response.

And frankly, I don't care whether Aisha was two or twenty, that was then, this is now: time and circumstances and societies change (usually), so the question is far more to do with whether or not people would blindly follow the Koran NOW, IF it supported child marriage.

Or amputations.

Or beheadings.

Or burning people alive in cages.

Or raping and enslaving non-Muslim women and young girls.

Are any of those abominations in accord with the Koran ? [NOTE: a question].

And, IF SO, should any sane person blindly follow those precepts, merely because they were ? [NOTE: another question].

And, IF THEY DID, would everybody be justified in questioning whether or not the Koran sanctioned the most vile terrorism ?

To those last four questions, I hope not :) I hope Islam can one day become a religion of peace, reason, enquiry, harmony and love for our fellow-human beings, regardless of what god they may believe in.

Joe

Loudmouth,
To err is human. We all can err. So committing a mistake is not insanity, but insisting on one's mistake and repeating it again and again, definitely is.

You raise outrageous questions about Quran, in such a way, that a casual reader can be mislead that, it was the actual content of Quran. You did that in case of Child marriage, giving the impression to the uninformed reader that Quran mandated child marriage. When confronted, you took ignorance as plea for defense. Ignorance as defense? How ridiculous.

If you don't know what is written in Quran, why don't you read it yourself and get the knowledge first hand. Like Lesley Hazleton did http://youtu.be/3Y2Or0LlO6g

Do you think, it is a sane method of learning Quran, to level a heap of allegations, without doing the basic spadework necessary, even to frame a sensible question, and then put the onus on others to dig the truth for you. The responsibility to educate ourselves is ours and not of others.

Now again you have posted this crap:-
" so the question is far more to do with whether or not people would blindly follow the Koran NOW, IF it supported child marriage.

Or amputations.

Or beheadings.

Or burning people alive in cages.

Or raping and enslaving non-Muslim women and young girls.

Are any of those abominations in accord with the Koran ? [NOTE: a question]."

Now please tell me, if you are rational, won't the reader assume from this question, that Quran supports all these atrocities?

What else am to say than to request you to please quote from Quran, where this nonsense is supported?
I know and you should know too, that none of this rubbish is supported by Quran and none of it is Islam.

Continued..

The Question of Aisha’s age 2 of 2

Loudmouth, This is to complete the ongoing subject. Will address your post of 9 March 9:37 AM when the page permits another post from me.

1. Aisha was engaged to son of Mutam about 9 years before her marriage to Muhammad (Saw), according to Tabri (historian – d923) – Mutam refused for Aisha to live in his house because Aisha had accepted Islam (Aisha’s father requested this as he wanted to migrate to Habsha to avoid persecution in Mecca). This suggests that she was about 19 years old at the time of marriage.

2. According to most historians the older sister of Aisah (Asma) was 10 years older than her. It is an established fact that Asma was 28 years old at the time of hijra (1 or 2 years before Aisha’s marriage). This suggests her age of about 19 when married.

3. Tabri also reports that all four children of Abu Bakr (Aisha included) were borne in pre-Islamic period. This suggests Aisha’s age at the time of marriage to be 14 years or more.

4. Ibn Hisham – the historian (d833 ad) reports that Aisha accepted Islam before Umar ibn Khattab. This also suggests her age to be 14 years or more when she got married.

5. Ahmad Bin Hanbal (d 855) reports that the lady (Khaulah) used the Arabic word “bikr” for Aisha, when she suggested Muhammad (Saw) to remarry after the death of his wife. The word ‘bikr’is used for an unmarried lady as opposed to the word “jariyah” which should have used for a young 9 year old girl, if that was Aish’s age then.

6. According to Ibn Hajar (d1449) Fatima was 5 years older than Aisha. This suggests Aisha’s age of 14 years or more at the time of marriage.

There are other references confirming the above and NONE supports the age of 9 years as reported by the single narration through Hisham ibn Urwah at the age he had the widely known memory problems.

NC,

I don't think there is such a thing as an 'outrageous question', simply because you can dispose of it with a simple answer, 'yes' or 'no'. In my world, anybody can ask any question, simple as that. You still don't seem to understand the difference between an inquiry and a conclusion, i.e. a question and a declaration.

I wonder if that is deliberate, as a ploy not to answer a question. Actually, all your stuff about this or that authority declaring that Aisha was nine or twelve or twenty - it doesn't matter too hoots, but the question really is: does the Koran condone child marriage, and if so, does that carry any weight these days ?

IF, IF, IF it does, does that mean that the Koran needs drastic reform ? That's a question, not a declaration. And if the Koran CAN be used to justify other crimes, does this mean that, for those reasons as well, the Koran needs drastic revision ?

All you have to do, NC, is declare that the Koran does NOT condone such crimes, and we can take more notice of it, particularly if it is brought more up to date.

Does the Koran condone such vile crimes as those listed above ?

Joe

McAdam: Child marriage is common in Latin America and the Caribbean island nations. About 29% of girls are married before age 18.The child marriage varies between the countries

But older than 14.

McAdam: "Girls Not Brides statement on UN General Assembly resolution on child, early and forced marriage"?

47 Islamic Countries signed it. Yet only recently in Lebanon & Gaza there was a mass wedding of Child Brides. Two of the Countries that signed the Resolution. But we all know how much a Un Resolution is worth. Nada.

The point is, regardless of weather it's in the Koran or not.

Do you McAdam, CM, or NC support Child marriages in Australia. "Yes" or "No."

If "Yes," then is a "refusal" to allow such a Marriage in Australia a Persecution of Islamic Values. "Yes" or "No."

I'm sure we would all like a straight one word answer. "Yes" or "No." Not a convoluted deflection or diversion. Please, I can't make it any simpler that that.