McAdam,

No, I don't assume there are only two 'opinions' on the subject of child marriage, that's partly why I asked the question.

And yes, nations overwhelmingly oppose child marriage and enshrine the rights of the child. It's not my job to find countries which don't support those rights of the child, why do you think that ?

By the way, there may be some difference between a child of twelve and a young woman of eighteen: in most countries, if a girl is seventeen, or even sixteen, and perhaps has been working for a while, she may be given permission to marry, if it is clearly of her own free will.

To ask a question is not to 'attack', or to show signs of 'hate', or of being 'one-eyed': it is simply to ask a question, to find out, to clarify, to learn. We learn by asking questions, McAdam :) This is not necessarily some childish one-up game.

Of course, if you think you know everything already, I can appreciate that you may find questions threatening, even insulting. But that's how learning occurs, to enquire, to explore, to ask - not just to be told.

I think I AM fairly sane, there's no need for insults. And it's not my task to locate verses in the Koran which support child marriage, such as that of Aisha. But it may well be up to you to square that with your professions of opposition to child marriage. In other words, it's not my problem, but it may be yours.

I'm sure that if Jews or Christians could be bothered to locate verses in their books in support of chid marriage, they would condemn them - I say 'bothered', because I'm fairly sure that the vast majority of Jews and Christians are totally opposed to chid marriage and would denounce any mention in their books of it as vastly out-of-date. Can you say the same for Muslims ? Any Jews or Christians getting ten-year sentences lately ? Well, you asked :)

Joe

Loudmouth,

You say;
"I think I AM fairly sane,.... And it's not my task to locate verses in the Koran which support child marriage"

You had, thus called my explanation on it, earlier ;
"Are you agreeing that, if there is any support for it in the Koran, it must be opposed ? That, if necessary, the Koran must be questioned and reformed ?"

Now please, pause and look at your conduct with a cool mind. You frame a charge against Quran and call for reforming Quran, because of some thing allegedly wrong contained in it, and now declare that it is not your responsibility to care if your charge is right or not. Is this a convincing example of sane behavior?

I do not mean to insult any body. It is that people insult themselves, by baring their ignorance and blindness, inflicted upon them by the hatred and by the falsehood they have foolishly devoured.

Hatred is no good, it destroys the reasoning of the beholder. Hatred must never be embraced or fanned, that is the point of the article and the point is right.
Let hatred not blind people in to opposing a perfectly sane advice, just because it appears to come from a Muslim.

Good luck, take care.

MAdam,

Can you tell the difference between a question and a declaration ? I was simply asking you " .... if there is any support for [child marriage] in the Koran, it must be opposed ? That, if necessary, the Koran must be questioned and reformed ?"

I asked because I am curious about the morality in the Koran, and to what extent it is totally out-of-date, out of step with the morality of the modern world. I was not declaring something to be so, simply asking. I was not calling for the urgent reform of Islam, that's really your job :)

So all your spewing about hate and blindness and intimations of insanity is really quite misplaced. If that's the only way you know how to carry on any sort of discussion, then there is not much I can do about it.

If you ever decide to join it, welcome to the modern world.

Joe

And the White Crow flies off into the sunset, leaving another pile of regurgitated crap for someone else to deal with...

<cont

Quran 2:190- Fight in the way of Allah against those WHO FIGHT AGAINST YOU, BUT BEGIN NOT HOSTILITIES. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.

My translation <<2:190. Create trouble buy demanding the people convert. If they refuse, say you are defending Islam & kill them>>
I'm just trying to understand exactly what is meant by "Persecution, Oppressed & State of War," according to the Koran & Hadith.
That’s how I sawmy Translation it in relation to:

By Persecution & Oppression does that mean anything that moslems declare as Persecution or Oppression is, to Islam. E.g.:

Refusal to be allowed to build a Mosque,
Refusal to move a Pig farm after a Mosque is build on the neighbouring land,
Refusing to grant a special day for moslems & screen off an area for moslem women at the Local Swimming Pool,
Refusal to put a screen around the Local Pool because the sight of so many naked bodies is offensive to moslems.
Refusing to pay to have a food declared Halal.
Declaring that the Burka or other such women's clothing inhumane.
Declaring that Sharia Law is forbidden.
Declaring that a moslem can only have one wife.

By those Refusing any of the above list, Does that mean that a “State of War” exists? “Yes” or “No.”

Quran 2:192- But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

My translation <<2:192. If they accept Allah then don't, kill them.>>

Another attempt at that particular Translation;

If moslems get their own way, ("desist" refusing them)
“But if they desist,” from the unbelievers, regarding the above list , Allah will forgive them for refusing in the first place “Allah is Forgiving” & won’t kill them.” (Merciful”

Is that better. “Yes” or “No.”

Loudmouth to McAdam: "So the question remains: do you or don't you support child, i.e. under-age, marriages ? Yes ? No ?"

McAdam: You assume that there are two opinions on this point?

Two pages of waffle & you didn’t answer, “Yes” or “No.” Which is it?

Responsibility of making RESPONSIBLE STATEMENTS

Loudmouth,

I was about to ask you the question McAdam has just asked for a reference from Quran, for your statement that Quran <<support[s] child marriage>>.

And you answer with:

<<And it's not my task to locate verses in the Koran which support child marriage, such as that of Aisha.>>

I will revisit the issue of Aisha’s age, but let me ask you first:

Are you saying that it the responsibility of someone else to defend your statements?

Well, if that is the case, you have immense freedom to make statements!

And this ‘presumed freedom’ of yours allows you to make untrue, fabricated, deceitful and deceptive statements you have been making so far, and most likely will continue making.

No Loudmouth, your statement is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY.

You MUST provide a reference from Quran for what you have alleged or apologise as an honorable man, if you are the one, that is.

Don’t you realise Loudmouth that your war is against TRUTH. You think that your false statements will be accepted without a demand for their proof? Can you do this in this age of reason which happens to be the age of information as well? Just ask yourself!

Now chances are that you will use slick words trying to wriggle out of your responsibility to furnish evidence. And if you do, I assure you that I will bring you back to your original false statement and the fact that you refuse to defend it.

More than your superficial knowledge of history and religion, your absurd statements on Islam spring from your hatred of Islam and Muslims. The fact shows itself in so many of your posts recorded at this site. You seek permission for these statements on the pretext of asking questions. You must know that we know that your statements like Quran supports child marriage in NOT a QUESTON.

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