Constance,

Some of your today’s message carries discussable references, which is good.

And also, knowing now that I am addressing a lady, my address will have added constraints.

A basic point to start with. The theme of compensation and retribution runs in all three monotheist faiths. Can you please share your reason of bring Islam only up on the subject.

I say this in an attempt to understand how to proceed with this discussion. Obviously, my answer can’t be same to an atheist (with all due respect for their views) and a question from a follower of other religion (Christianity, for instance – again with due respect for their faith).

So, please clarify your position, if you may, for my further input after this brief one.

35:45 (your first reference) carries a repeated theme of Quran that reward is God’s Mercy as opposed to one’s right – again a theme quite common with Christianity, I understand.

22: 42-45 refers to people of Noah, again with a treatment common in Bible and Torah, of course along with SIMILAR cases.

The other common factor in the two references is the doom of the evil doers, repeatedly pointed out by Quran. In a widely held view among Muslims, this is Quran’s statement that unjust societies can’t survive. They must bring destruction upon themselves.

Involved in the above is the question of how God acts. This is where religious vs atheist directions are miles apart. Cause and effect discussion enters the scene.

Similar is the question of hell fire or paradise – a description of an environment beyond the experience of human beings. Places or states? In a form “Not known to you yet “(Quran)

The pleasant and unpleasant sides of that experience is brought up in terms of what humans can relate to – the only practical explanation understandable for all.

And central to above all is the question whether or not we continue after death is some form. Yes, we do Quran, Bible and Torah tell us.

If you believe we don’t, it is a whole different discussion.

Continued ….

Continued….

Constance,

On Loudmouth:

Before he wastes his and tries to waste my time, he should know that I don’t read messages from Loudmouth, except for few words that eye catches when the text scrolls, while I go to the next message.

I plan to continue this until he provides answers to my previous questions and agrees to provide answer to questions which I will inevitably ask him, if we decide to interact.

On your questions on how some Muslims act presently – frankly, as I have said before, I have my own reservations. Not to say that all individuals of all other societies are above criticism.

The issue of the followers is a complicated one. I leave it as the last item of discussion, if at all we have time to handle this.

Hadith,
"Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid Al-Juhani: A bedouin came and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." His opponent got up and said, "He is right. Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." The bedouin said, "My son was a laborer working for this man, and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife. The people told me that my son should be stoned to death; so, in lieu of that, I paid a ransom of one hundred sheep and a slave girl to save my son. Then I asked the learned scholars who said, "Your son has to be lashed one-hundred lashes and has to be exiled for one year." The Prophet said, "No doubt I will judge between you according to Allah's Laws. The slave-girl and the sheep are to go back to you, and your son will get a hundred lashes and one year exile." He then addressed somebody, "O Unais! go to the wife of this (man) and stone her to death" So, Unais went and stoned her to death."
Sahih Bukhari 3:49:860

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Stoning

If any posters wish to become Muslims

"How Does Someone Become a Muslim?

Simply by saying with conviction, “La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadur rasoolu Allah,” one converts to Islam and becomes a Muslim.
This saying means “There is no true god (deity) but God (Allah),1 and Muhammad is the Messenger (Prophet) of God.” The first part, “There is no true god but God,” means that none has the right to be worshipped but God alone, and that God has neither partner nor son. To be a Muslim, one should also:

n Believe that the Holy Quran is the literal word of God, revealed by Him.

n Believe that the Day of Judgment (the Day of Resurrection) is true and will come, as God promised in the Quran.

n Accept Islam as his or her religion.

n Not worship anything nor anyone except God.
....
"An important note:
If you are interested in converting to Islam or have a question regarding that, then it is highly recommended that you visit “Live Help” through chat that is found near the bottom right of this page, so an advisor may help you in pronouncing the testimony correctly and to provide you with important resources for new Muslims.".

http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch3-6.htm

It is not, however, as simple to cease to be a Muslim.

Homosexuality and adultery, Why Islam on trial for this?

Please Read your scripture:-

“If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10)

“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman. So you shall purge the evil from Israel.(Deuteronomy 22:22 )

“Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery. (Luke 16:18 )

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13 )

And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.” (Matthew 19:9 )

And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. (Mark 9:43)

"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." (Leviticus 21:9)

"If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity." (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)

Don't you read your scripture? And if you do and yet choose to single out Islam, are you not deceiver and lier?

Why not measure every body with the same yardstick? Your problems and problems of the humanity will vanish . Read and act on you scripture which says:-

For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Galatians 5:14 )

Note:- The references used are of secondary nature. The possibility of error can not be ruled out. I will welcome any correction....thanks.

Back again…

Hi Loud, thank you for enlightening our Muslims friends as to the content of 5:33/34. It seems that Muslims are so desperate to find “peaceful” or “Thou shalt not kill” verses that they cut up Allah’s perfect words, putting them together to try to get a verse that meets their emotional needs. Those ‘fixed’ verses are the ones that Muslims quote all the time to ‘prove’ Muslims are peaceful. Actually Allah is a plagiarist because that quote is from the Jewish Talmud. If Muslims want a verse about killing, all they have to do is look at Quran 9:111 which says that Muslims are put on earth to kill and be killed, just like in Paris today.

What this whole tread proves is that Muslims are unable to be honest about their theology or practice. They will do anything except admit that the hate and violence that is typical of Islam everywhere has anything to do with Islam.

It is not just Mac and NC, all Muslims want to believe Islam is perfect and wonderful. The problem is that the Quran and hadith support hate and violence against infidels—and so the radicals – those that kill and oppress – always control the game. The good Muslims see Islam as they want it to be, not as what their sacred writings teach or even what Muslims do. The problem is that even the good Muslims have no problem with the hate and violence in the Quran or the evil deeds of their prophet. Figure out, if you can, what that means!

This last week we have seen Western leaders condemn peaceful demonstrations in Germany against Islam. As I have said, the politicians, media, clergy, academia and bureaucrats in the West have sold their souls to the devil for praise and mutual acclaim, telling us that Islam is peaceful and anybody that says otherwise is a racist, islamophobe, bigot, steals candy from babies and kicks puppies.

Today Muslims killed 13 in Paris because someone offended them, just like Mohammad did in his attacks on his peaceful neighbors. We never learn