JKJ, don't confuse justification with motivation. If one has the motivation, then a justification can be found. The people of the middle east and the west of the subcontinent have a great deal of motivation and if they did not have Islam, the justification would be found elsewhere.

My comments here have been so vitriolic because what I see from the rabbellous mob here is counter to all I believe to be good and worthwhile. There is intolerance, no attempt to understand, no good faith in the interactions, sanctimony, thinly-disguised selfishness and distrust; all of it from those on your side of the fence and fence (or Wall if you could wish it so) it most certainly would be if those like you, got their way.

None of this is about Islam; that is simply the justification of those of you whose motivation is based on the lowest of self-interest. You don't face famine or war, you are worried there may not be room in your trough.

Sanctimonious, cowardly fearful, disgracefully weakly principled.

I am ashamed to say any of you are from my nation.

Oh yes, Craig, this is about Islam.

This is about a religion that teaches hate and violence. This is about a book that has hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of verses that slander, denigrate and call for violence against nonMuslims.

This is about a people that consider Mohammad to be a great moral example, a great moral example that attacked his neighbors for 10 years, assaulting them dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of times, and committing all kinds of atrocities against men women and children. That is what all Islamic histories say.

This is about the “billion muslims live for the most part entirely peacefully” (your words) that live in countries that discriminate and persecute non-Muslims. Would these peaceful Muslims, by any chance, be part of the same mob of thousands that dragged a Christian couple out of their home and burned them in an oven because of a rumour? The fact is that these so-called peaceful Muslims are neither tolerant or peaceful, unless you define “peaceful” in a very restrictive personal manner.

This is about a people that cannot be honest about their beliefs. They can only make excuses or blame others (because they believe Islam is perfect and they are the “best of peoples” while infidels are “lower than animals” -- in case you haven’t read the Quran or hadith)

Don’t be ashamed or worry about me. I am fine and I have a clear conscience. I never make excuses for evil.

NC, why don't you quote Mohammad and his followers on Mohammad? I have hundreds of good verses you can use from the hadith and Tabari. Why play with secondary opinions when you can strike those horrible infidels with the forceful words from the original sources?

Just trying to help.

I'm not ashamed for you, Kactuz, I'm ashamed of you.

The tragedy is that you lack the capacity to be ashamed of yourself.

Hi Craig,

Perhaps you could give us some examples of your claims:

"My comments here have been so vitriolic because what I see from the rabbellous mob here is counter to all I believe to be good and worthwhile. There is intolerance, no attempt to understand, no good faith in the interactions, sanctimony, thinly-disguised selfishness and distrust; all of it from those on your side of the fence and fence (or Wall if you could wish it so) it most certainly would be if those like you, got their way.

"None of this is about Islam; that is simply the justification of those of you whose motivation is based on the lowest of self-interest. You don't face famine or war, you are worried there may not be room in your trough."

So much ad hominem, so little substance ! All piss and wind really.

But this could so easily apply to you:

"Sanctimonious, cowardly fearful, disgracefully weakly principled."

What, you think you'll be spared the butcher's knife when your turn comes ? You'll be up there alongside the IS apparatchiks ? Don't kid yourself.

I'm happy for all Australians, of whatever ethnic background, to live here together, as long as they observe the rule of law and the equality of the sexes.

Is that too much to ask ? Can you quarrel with that ?

Joe Lane
Adelaide
www.firstsources.info

Sure, Craig, religious ideology's got nothing to do with it. We've just got disaffected people going after what they want, violently, and justifying it with their holy books.

Where you say, "None of this is about Islam; that is simply the justification of those of you whose motivation is based on the lowest of self-interest.", you could be referring to religious supremacists. However, you are right that it is self-interest, my safety in my secular, democratic country.

What is motivating people to kill me? They have been born and raised within the safety net of our welfare state, or have been welcomed into it. The same is true of people from other religious backgrounds, but they don't want to kill me. Why not? Insufficient justification?

So, "Some large portion of those people live in conditions which the whiners here would wither and die in....". That's true of people who don't want to kill me too. All we can do is try to help them, and if your argument is we're not doing enough, that's a different topic. However you are light-years off this being any motivation for criticizing Islamic ideology here.

Finally, "My comments here have been so vitriolic because what I see from the rabbellous mob here is counter to all I believe to be good and worthwhile". Oh, you mean some people disagree with your beliefs?

Go jump.

REPEATED QUESTIONS IN THIS THREAD 1 of 2

This post revisits questions being repeated despite clear answers to them. It is for rational minds who apparently can see through these questioners, as one has recently come forward.

On Slavery and Quran, I quote here a forceful message of Quran through 2:177, repeated elsewhere too, Pickthall’s translation:

“It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture and the prophets; and giveth wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, AND TO SET SLAVES FREE; and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor-due. And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the Allah-fearing.”

To “set slaves free" is a basic attribute of “righteousness” of an upright person that Quran demands. I mentioned in previous posts the one of the most revered of the friends of Muhammad (Bilal) was as freed (black) slave, of course, among countless others.

And also the fact that Muhammad lifted the society from its vile practices gradually, as it was the only practical way to do it, remember slavery was a sanctioned human practice for ages.

Does it leave any doubt on position of Quran on slavery: Absolutely NOT. But the case of the questioners is different.

The other question:

"Simple question: Does the Islamic State act entirely according to the instructions and teachings of the Koran ? Yes ? No ?"

The question is built in Loudmouth’s question of the 23rd:

“Nobody is demonising Muslims. Nobody has to - in their name (are you prepared to repudiate their claim ?) dreadful crimes are being committed by terrorists, in Syria, Iraq, Nigeria, Pakistan, Yemen, Kenya. Obviously, those crimes have been committed by a tiny minority of Muslims, the vast majority of whom would, I'm sure, repudiate those crimes.”

Continued …