Loudmouth Lane,
Of course they do. In fact, even as I type this the global Jihad is starting. Be afraid...

I understand the reinforcements from the planet Zoobidoobie should be here day after tomorrow.

Craig
Nothing you have said relates to the subject matter of the discussion. You are just spewing ignorance, hatred and bigotry yourself.

NC/McAdam keep evading the central question, whether there might be some connection between Islam and Islamism, by accusing anyone who questions it of hatred and bigotry; and lots of other forms of evasion.

The point is this. There are, around the world, a lot of atrocities being committed daily by Muslims who are obviously under the impression that the Muslim belief system justifies what they are doing.

Therefore it is perfectly reasonable to ask whether this is the result of deranged lunatics who JUST HAPPEN to be Muslim - nothing to do with Islam: as NC and McAdam argue; or whether it has something to do with the Muslim belief system.

If Mohammed, Koran and hadith sanction such abuses, then what logical inference do you think might follow from that, Craig?

OTOH if they have nothing to do with the Koran and hadith, then obviously the time NC and McAdam have just spent defending an article arguing the problem is that Muslims are victims of mainstream Australian hatred and bigotry, and that you have spent spitting on me, would have been better spent persuading their co-religionists that it's not okay to behead, crucify, enslave and rape people, wouldn't it?

Wouldn't it? Craig?

McAdam
Evasion. I will not be sent on an errand to work out your belief system for you. Answer the question.

NC and McAdam
The abuses of the Inquisition, and other persecutions by other religions, are irrelevant for several reasons. Firstly two wrongs don’t make a right. You are only demonstrating a lack of understanding of the concept of moral responsibility.

The same with saying that slavery was prevalent in many places and times. Yes it was, but that’s not the question, which is, whether it is sanctioned by Mohammed, Koran, and hadith.

Secondly, can you see that, in order to move beyond slavery, someone at some time had, and has, to take a stand on moral principle?

(cont.)

But what kind of moral principle is it to say that slavery may be justified if it’s prevalent in a particular culture in a particular time? If slavery were re-advocated, yo'd have no objection against it on moral principle, it’s a question of whatever seems popular at the time, is that what you’re saying?

Historically, the abolitionist movement didn’t come from Muslims, did it?
Because they used your argument, didn’t they?
In fact it was imposed on the Muslim world from outside, wasn’t it?
And it still continues in parts of the Muslim world today.
I suppose you’re going to tell me that is more irrelevant coincidence?

Thirdly it’s easy to prove that persecutions done by the Christians were not supported by anything that Jesus said, just by reading the New Testament.

However if Jesus had said beheadings, slavery, persecutions etc. are okay, then obviously it would be reasonable to infer that such abuses are a reflection on the Christian belief system per se, wouldn’t it?

But the argument we are facing from NC and McAdam is not just a denial that Islam is relevant to Islamism, even while they refer to Koranic texts sanctioning slavery and permission to have sex with captive women.

Their argument is that it is “hate” and “bigotry” to even question any connection between the Muslim belief system, and the current worldwide plague of atrocities by Muslims.

So lets just agree to put aside all personal argument, and all evasion, and telling me what I think, and accusing me of hate, and bigotry, and diversionary talk about Pakistan, and Gibbon, and Karen Armstrong, and Craig’s spitting.

And NC, McAdam and Craig please just answer the questions:
1. Are you saying that no part of the Koran preaches or authorises the killing, enslaving or raping of unbelievers?
2. What steps have you taken to persuade the many Muslims who obviously don’t agree with you and are currently committing atrocities, that their views of the hadith, Koran, Mohammed and Allah are wrong, and that you renounce and condemn their views as unIslamic?

SPQR ,
I had deferred this post thus far, in favor of more important topics.

All I had said was, putting in plain English, so that even you can understand, that all Christians should not be put on the spot by us, for Inquisition.

Now who on earth, could make this completely innocuous statement, something of a contention and initiate a totally unnecessary debate? Other than a person devoid of reason; ......you.

You act like a Paid-Thread-Hopper who has no time for studied response. That is why all your contributions to the forum have been cheap superfluous remarks that you had no evidence to support with, when asked to, and instead, you tried to wriggle out, through clever talk and foul mouth.

Secondly, see the pattern of your posts; you keep throwing in spanners in logical discussions just for disruption. Your latest is "I think Mc Adam and NC are practising a form of taqiyya ....". Now what is this?
After all, there must be a test,to judge the truth. Test is simple; reason and consistence, the test, likes of you can never pass.
No sane person could say this after knowing what Taqqiyya is and NC 's post on the subject made it amply clear. I personally rate that post as one of the best researched; it added to my knowledge.. I wonder if you had time to read it or had the capacity to comprehend and retain it.

You think that the seeds of doubt you sow, will find fertile ground in people's mind, as if they lack the capacity to discern verifiable information which is anchored in scholarship from the off the cough, loose talk which has no ground to stand on?. Like the statement "NC and McAdam are one person". What? Proof? That has never been your concern.

I do not see a single post from you, which was knowledge based or which facilitated resolution of any issue under discussion. What is your agenda? And who are you?

Frankly SPQR, I care two hoots for what you say. And will ignore anything you address me.

Luciferase
" You and your co-ideologists are my enemy and I'll oppose you anywhere you are in the world, at home and internationally."

Fine , it is your right to pick your friends and enemies. However I do not consider you as my enemy, just because of a different religion.

Then Luciferase, you go on to say
"Just imagine, how off the mark one would be, who took the atrocities of Inquisition as the sole representative of Christianity?"

Did I say atrocities of Inquisition are the sole representative of Christianity?
You must be having some proof of this allegation. Kindly provide.

Jardine,
" I will not be sent on an errand to work out your belief system for you. Answer the question"

I have read your posts and notice an intense desire to seek clarity on the issues agitating your mind. But then I see you close the doors of flow of knowledge, .......and you can't see the contradiction.
Let me explain. Mind, like a vessel has to be empty to receive any thing new. The mind full with what it already has, can not absorb any thing new.
Now you ask lengthy question spanning more than one post. Obviously the word-restricted -post can not accommodate the full answer. So one is forced to indicate relevant study....which you reject ...as "errand to work out your belief system".

Primary responsibility to pull ourselves out of ignorance is ours; others can only help. And if you suspect the sincerity of the helping hand and wish to remain where you are, what can any one else do?...... Good luck.

Loudmouth,

"Simple question: Does the Islamic State act entirely according to the instructions and teachings of the Koran ? Yes ? No ?"

Knowledge, dear Loudmouth, does not flow like blood transfusion to a sleeping recipient. One has to strive, to seek, grasp and digest it.
You can get the answer if you are prepared to spare the effort required, .....more than the comfort of yes or no.

To All Who Are Keen To Put Islam and Quran On Spot for Actions of A Few Zealots:

And keep insisting on the questions like; "Does the Islamic State act entirely according to the instructions and teachings of the Koran ?"

Please allow me to state your position, for your kind review.
1. You get upset even with mention of Inquisition, and start protesting that Inquisition is not representative of the Christianity. Even though it had the sanction of the organized institutions of Christianity; the Church and the Pope.
2. You are right that Inquisition is not the representative of the Christianity. And it is a black spot on the beautiful face of Christianity, which arguably is the most forgiving and loving religions.
3. Please, please, see clearly, no one is suggesting that Inquisition is representative of Christianity. As it is wrong to lump the actions of a few zealots on the entire religion.
4. Now, in the same breath, you put the entire religion of Islam on spot for actions of a few zealots of dubious origin who completely lack the sanction of organized religious authorities of Islam.

DO YOU SEE THE DOUBLE STANDARDS IN YOUR STAND?

Now a couple of more points for you consideration. Religion by design, lends itself to more than one interpretations; hence various denominations and differences of opinion within religion; any religion.
a. Zealots have had extreme views.
b. Zealots thrive in ignorance and therefore any society with less literacy and more ignorance is vulnerable to their exploitation.
c. Simpletons get exploited; remember the example of Hassan-O-Sabbah?
d. There are international players who use religion for their ends. Remember the confession of US Secretary of State?
e. There are oddities about IS that do not add up; more on it later, if any one insists to pursue the subject