JKJ, whining about my critique of the appalling behaviour of some of the participants here does not invalidate that critique. You need to learn some basic logic little fella.

Whatever the Quran says, the simple fact is that a billion muslims live for the most part entirely peacefully and with some level of happiness. Some large portion of those people live in conditions which the whiners here would wither and die in (after having made sure that everybody heard their whining about it first, of course). Some tiny portion, mostly from or with recent ancestry in the most blighted of those conditions do stupid things.

It might have escaped your notice up there on your little one-trick pony, but a sure predictor that some people will do stupid things out of anger, fear and frustration is the long-term existence of a pool of people in poverty and distress.

Go and crawl into a ball and talk to the only part of the world likely to sit still long enough to pay attention to your poisonous pontifications. Poor scared little thing.

And that IS the topic.

Thanks Craig,

I asked, "Does the Islamic State act entirely according to the instructions and teachings of the Koran ?"

and you responded, "Of course they do. In fact, even as I type this the global Jihad is starting. Be afraid..."

Thanks for your confirmation of that query. Perhaps not 'afraid' though - after all, that's the aim of terrorists generally, to terrorise, to make people afraid that they may be the next victims of random, indiscriminate, attacks. 'Alert and vigilant' would be better.

But yes, I do take the threat of global jihad seriously, utterly crazy as it my sound: we will see it in fuller operation next [northern] Spring when the Taliban in Afghanistan will go all-out for it, and when the Pakistani government will drop its guts and fold.

And if you don't think that jihadis operating from Afghanistan and Pakistan right across the Middle East to Algeria and down through Nigeria and Somalia are a major threat to world peace and for a very long time to come, then you are more of an idiot that you seem from you post.

So, NC/McAdam, that a 'yes" ? Your bum-buddy Craig seems to think so:

"Does the Islamic State act entirely according to the instructions and teachings of the Koran ?"

"Of course they do."

Of course, he may have been trying to be sarcastic in his own clumsy schoolboy way, unaware that OLO hosts past masters of the art. But if he wants to get into a pissing contest for half-wits - good news ! - he qualifies.

Joe Lane

No-one is blaming all Muslims for the actions of a few terrorists.

The question is whether Muslims, by being Muslims, have in common with Muslim terrorists, that they believe in what Koran and hadith say in support of killing, enslaving and raping unbelievers. If that is so, then the difference is that the Muslim terrorists are acting on, and the Muslim non-terrorists are not acting on, such religious beliefs that they have in common.

That would have explaining power. It'd explain why Muslim terrorists come out of the Muslim community, and believe that Islam justifies their abuses. And it would explain why ordinary Australian Muslims – who Craig says are “living peacefully” – are flying overseas to join the jihadis committing atrocities, or marrying them. If they are only “living peacefully” in the sense that they believe that Islam justifies atrocious abuses, but are not actively carrying out such abuses, that's not much recommendation, is it?

Craig, hard to make out what you’re trying to say because your post is so larded with bitter sneering hateful sarcastic personal argument. Try and say something sensible without that – if you can. But it’s not sensible to say that religiously-motivated abuses are justified by poverty; or that it’s wrong to identify Muslims with the Muslim belief system.

More evasion from McAdam, ho hum. Why not just come out and say that you have no interest in the truth, and want only to propagate the Muslim religion regardless of the fact that either Islam preaches hatred and abuse, or you should be on a mission to persuade your co-religionists to renounce Islam as they mistake it?

The idea that there is a generalised problem of hatred and bigotry against Muslims because people wrongly associate Muslims in general with Muslim terrorism, would only make sense if the Koran does not sanction the abuses in evidence, or if those Muslims were trying to dissociate themselves from its teachings. Therefore the entire issue comes down to the questions that McAdam, NC and Craig keep trying to evade.

And that IS the topic.

Sane minds on Muhammad continued..

No matter who you are: a monotheist, a religious, an atheist, an agnostic, a leftist, a rightest or anyone else.

And irrespective of you academic background (or absence of it) in science, literature, religion, history or any other subject.

All you need is sane and unbiased mind to read about the wonderful man they call Muhammad.

Once you read is life story, you will know that you wanted to know him!

Here are two brief quotes for the day:

Stanley Edward Lane-Poole (1854 - 1931)- a British orientalist and archaeologist in his book “Table Talk of the Prophet Muhammad”
“He was the most faithful protector of those he protected, the sweetest and most agreeable in conversation. Those who saw him were suddenly filled with reverence; those who came near him loved him; they who described him would say, "I have never seen his like either before or after." He was of great taciturnity, but when he spoke it was with emphasis and deliberation, and no one could forget what he said...”


Sarojini Naidu (1879-1949), the famous Indian poet, writer and politician in “S. Naidu, Ideals of Islam, Speeches and Writings, Madaras,” (1918)

“It was the first religion that preached and practiced democracy; for, in the mosque, when the call for prayer is sounded and worshippers are gathered together, the democracy of Islam is embodied five times a day when the peasant and king kneel side by side and proclaim: 'God Alone is Great'... “

The Inquisition involved a church coming down on its own followers to maintain orthodoxy, not trying to impose supremacy over the worlds other religions by its violence. Furthermore, that was then, violence in the name of Islam was then and now.

Mcadam: "....I do not consider you as my enemy, just because of a different religion."

You represent the subset of religion that does not respect secular democracy and supports its supremacy, that's what makes you my enemy. You disagree with joining in condemning any religious ideology that threatens secular democracy saying, "I do not agree with you..."

You must believe your holy books support your stance. Which parts, and by what means?

I have omitted Christianity's further excesses after pursuing its own adherents, forcing Jews and Muslims to convert or leave. That is not to negate the point that it was centuries ago. Christianity has moved on, leaving Islam to clean itself up.