CAN,T YOU SEE?

How would it be if I tried to put all Christian people on the spot for Inquisition and inhuman crimes committed in the name of Religion and then based on that example I insisted, "your Bible sanctions burning people alive for thinking differently?"

It would be absurd. Why? Because zealots err and transgress and commit accesses and atrocities in the name of religion; zealots of all religions. They are like cancer in any society and should be treated as such; by isolating, not letting it spread to the whole body and destroying it. Any attempt to involve and infect the rest of the body is madness.

Can't you see the madness going on in this forum?

The people who go about committing the crimes in the names of IS, Boco haram or what ever, are cancers. Let us help the body dealing with its cancer. Like, it has started in Pakistan; the arrest orders for the cleric of the main masjid of the capital city; Lal- Masjid, have been issued.

We are not doing right when we insist that all Muslims are on the side of cancer.

Don't do it, for if you did, you may only harm yourself and your beautiful and peaceful country. Read about the fire bomb attack on a Masjid in a European country and injuring a half dozen worshippers ?......Can't you see?
That is the point the author of the' article,we are discussing, has made. Can't you see?

As for the friends, armed with cherry picked hate material and based on this, posing to be experts and are bent upon starting a debate on comparative study of religions on this forum with word restriction. It is like trying to catch a Jet liner with a fly catcher. Please read on, please study further, if you are serious. Deep and honest study; by yourself will unmask the truth to you. This hate charged debate will only push you deeper in the ignorance.
Can't you see? Or can you?

@ McAdam --this is where you show how ill-informed you are!

<<How would it be if I tried to put all Christian people on the spot for Inquisition and inhuman crimes committed in the name of Religion>>

Happens EVERY DAY in the lectures theatres & forums of our universities --and across the media. Christianity & CHRISTIAN PEOPLES are daily held accountable for the Inquisition,the forced conversion of the Americas ,slavery -- you name...

But when similar is raised about Islams dark history people like you and NC label it a HATE crime.

Why, your good buddy NC wasnt even aware of the Islamic-Turkish-Arab slave trade --and once more, he didnt want to know anything about it.

McAdam

Just answer the question. Are you saying that no part of the Koran preaches or authorises the killing, enslaving or raping of unbelievers?

Shouldn't This Debate Be Over Now?

This debate should have ended after my post of equating the scourge of terrorism with cancer. That is as loud and clear, as it possibly can get. But it may generate a set of new questions.This is an attempt to answer those possible questions.
Our capacity to accept new answers varies, depending on the different levels of prejudices and pre conceived ideas, that we all seem to have.

Please recall, when West decided to arm the Mujahideen against Soviet Union, they were already in the field, with almost bare hands ..against foreign occupation of their homeland. At that time, they were like "Resistance in Europe against German occupation or like the Americans Founding Fathers struggling for independence from the colonial power. Reagan rightly equated them with the Founding Fathers, for this reason. When foreign funding started, came with it; the paid recruiters and paid zealots to motivate the recruits and potential recruits. That is the on set of cancer. The paid zealots and paid recruiters, are the cancer, possibly the financier too.

Is the game over now or is it on? It's any body's guess, but those categories still appear to be in the field. All these categories would be judged differently by history. Those resisting occupation or apartheid, need our gratitude, for we all owe our freedom to them. This is the lot, that the likes of Gandhi and Nelson Mandela, come from. Those being used and made fool of, like the assassins of Hasson-o-Sabbah are the pitiable lot. And those who are in this business for personal gains, need universal condemnation and eradication.

There is no mechanism available to judge the motive of a person other than his/her actions. So any crime against innocent civilians must be condemned and perpetrators punished. Terrorism in all its meneftststions and forms must be condemned. We must,at the same time, condemn, not as a precondition, but on its own merit, the state terrorism and subjugation of people through oppression. We must stand by the side of people opposing and resisting oppression.

NC/McAdam,

So, the answer to Jardine's question,

" Are you saying that no part of the Koran preaches or authorises the killing, enslaving or raping of unbelievers?"

is 'No' ? IS and all similar terrorist and criminal groups across the Islamic world are acting very much against the Koran, and against the interests of genuine Muslims ?

So, you are saying that the Koran and the hadiths are totally opposed to the beheading of children, the rape and enslavement or murder of young women, the murder of unarmed prisoners, the crucifixion of non-Muslims, the burning alive of teachers and schoolchildren ?

There is no mention of anything as brutal as that in any Islamic texts ? Apart from the cutting off of hands, stoning, etc., that we are used to ?

I certainly hope that you are right. IS etc. are un-Islamic terrorists ? You are appalled by what they have been doing, them and all the other fascist groups across the Muslim world ?

So the Left has backed the wrong horse, again, on their path to extinction ?

By the way, elaborating on SPQR's point, is there still slavery in Mauretania and other parts of north Africa, and in Saudi Arabia, or not ? Do you support that ? After all, it's probably 'cultural' ?

Joe

Joe

Taqiyya 1 of 2

This is brief on Taqiyya (mentioned repeatedly by you and at least one other participant of this discussion).

I am addressing it to you, but it is, in fact, for the honest seekers of the facts. They will find enough information to form a correct view on it.

It is alleged that Taqiyya “allows Muslims to lie to the disbelievers” for host of ill motives.

BACKGROUND

A Muslim (Ammar B. Yasir) in Muhammad’s time was subjected by unbelievers to unbearable physical torture and forced to insult Muhammad and praise their deities. He understandably yielded to pressure in unbearable torture and complied with the demand, unlike Bilal, for instance, who used to shout words of praise for Allah in this situation at the risk of his life. Ammar expressed his feeling of guilt to Muhammad, at a later stage. Muhammad told him “Say it again if they force you to do so”.

Shortly after this incident, the relevant verse of Quran (16:106) was revealed which has been frequently misquoted by the Medieval Mindset (resurfacing in hate sites) which has been focus of my recent posts.

The exact translation of the verse is:
“Whoso disbelieveth in Allah after his belief - save him who is forced thereto and whose heart is still content with the Faith - but whoso findeth ease in disbelief: On them is wrath from Allah. Theirs will be an awful doom.” [Pikthal translation of the Quran 16:106]

Peace of Ammar’s mind was restored after he found out that he had not sinned when his safety forced him to say what the perpetrators of torture wanted to hear.

The above background and the history is the beginning and the end of Taqqiyyah in mainstream Islam – there is nothing more , nothing less.

Original records available to upright researchers of this age show so vividly than none of them has ever endorsed the medieval mindset on this subject. Trash on the internet, filled with filth of distortions and misquotes, hosted by hate-sites is a different story.

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