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Dear George,
 
.
 
As I am sure you will have understood, the « labelling » or « branding » (to employ the image of the “Christian flock”) , is certainly not, in my case, self-inflicted. I treasure what little freedom I have and avoid all forms of categorisation and gregarious behaviour.

Thank you for clarifying my position as a Christian both before and after “enlightenment”. I have lived with that label all my life and am happy to continue to do so, even though it was the result of my mother’s decision to have me baptised, not mine. Or rather, I should say: “because it was my beloved mother’s decision, I am willing to assume it to the end”.

As I mentioned in one of my previous posts, I came from a poor family. Both my parents and my elder brother are now dead and my only inheritance is me, so I might as well preserve that, label and all.

However, my wife and I preferred to leave our two children decide if they wished to be baptised or not, both of us taking care not to influence them in any way. That was something we had agreed on, well before my personal “enlightenment”.

Your point regarding my formulation: “the fact that there is no god”, is well taken. I am happy to adopt your suggestion: “even though I am convinced that there is no god”. It is obviously more respectful of all those who hold a different opinion.

Mine was a logical conclusion derived from the analysis of historical facts concerning the god theory. I found there was overwhelming factual support for the alternative theory that it was man who invented the concept of god as an explanation of the unknown and that this concept evolved and developed and was refined and adapted as mankind’s intellectual capacity and knowledge of the universe expanded and progressed.

Though, as you rightly point out:  “there is no universal consensus “ on this alternative theory, I consider it to be not only a “good” explanation but the “best explanation”.
 
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Dear Yuyutsu,

.

Thank you for your words of wisdom.

As I just wrote to George, I do not seek to be “labelled” or “branded”. Others do that for me, whether I like it or not.

I do not overestimate my bravery. Despite your recommendation for me to “know myself”, I doubt that I should be capable of “going on the cross” for anyone. Perhaps it’s because I know myself too well.

As regards your objections to my statement that “Christianity has been doing fine for the past 2000 years”, I‘m afraid it’s true, despite all the horrors it has committed over that period, many of which you have indicated. I put it down to “blind faith” which, regrettably, is a common characteristic of a surprisingly large number of people who profess to believe in god.

Despite your warm and enthusiastic recommendations, I am not inclined to consider myself as “the source of Christianity, as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit”. I have, no doubt, interiorised a certain number of moral principles if that is what you mean, but it is no more than that, and by no stretch of the imagination should I ever accept to consider myself to have become some sort of god.

You also invite me to consider that my “human limitations are but an illusion”. I prefer to consider them as a reality but, possibly, surpassable, theoretically, under certain conditions.

Your intentions are very noble, Yuyutsu, and I am grateful to you for your interest and kind recommendations.

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Dear Ojnab,

.

You have every right to be proud of your atheism. In my opinion , you are on the right track and that is what is most important.

All the rest (method, language, expression, diplomacy, politeness, tact, kindness, etc.) is secondary and, hopefully, can be improved – if ever you feel so inclined.

.

Dear Banjo,

Nobody likes labelling or categorisation if it means stereotyping, however in some context you would like to know whether a person is e.g. Australian or Chinese and to avoid confusion one should also clarify which definition one has in mind, in this case whether citizenship or ethnicity (somebody could be an Australian citizen of Chinese ethnicity).

In certain discussions it might be relevant to know whether a person sees himself/herself as e.g. a Christian, or an atheist, (or something else) in spite of the fact that there is a wide variety of both.

Thanks again for the insight into your private life. Many people leave it to their children to decide whether they want to be baptised until they grow up, although I think it is hard for them to exclude their parents’ influence from the many that will lead to their decision.

Today the majority of atheists are still “cultural Christians” (to use Dawkins’ self-description), although the opposite case of “cultural atheists” becoming Christians for whatever reasons (as is already the case with many people who grew up in a Communist system) might be a distinct possibility also in future generations of Westerners.

i figured..WITH AT LEAST TWO..'DECLARED' PATTersons
that maybe..its time FOR A CLOSER TO TOPIC/PATTERSON TEXT
[IF NOT this]..one quotes..these is 19 more..here i havnt noted/but then..neither did..either of you

if you could ONLY HEAR/hear ..WHAT his spirit..IS RELAYING
INTO YOU2..[AND ITS EASY..IF YOU TRY..just jumble up his words..and rejoin them back together AGAIN

LETS TRY?

http://clatterymachinery.wordpress.com/2006/09/03/the-top-20-greatest-banjo-paterson-poems-of-all-time/

from The Bulletin,..April 8,..1893

Behind the mortal vision Scenes..The actor struts
his little POWER/hour,into perception AND/or misconception..Between the greater glory..and simplest..of power..lies..the limelight and the band;

The public..feel..the actor’s power,..Yet nothing..do they understand
Of all..the external/onternal-touches of spirit..in here and AOT-there...That make or mar..the actor’s..REPLAYED part,

They never see,..beneath the glare,..the scriptwriters muses..
The artist..striving/after art...HEARING/THE FAINTEST WISPIER..
To them..it seems a..labourFREE slight..Where nought of study intervenes;..

AND YET..You see it..NOW..
Now see it..in another MORE..TEMPORAL-[DE]-light

When once..you’ve been..aND SEEN..AS WE SEE..;[behind]..the scenes.
For *though..the actor..[at his best]..*THROUGH THE ACTOR IS BEST..Is, PROJECTED..like UNTO a poet,..AS/RE-LIVED EXPERience..is born..not made,

He still must..EVEN THEN..YET yearn/studyHEARING..with a zest
And practise hard..to learn this..listening trade....[not TIRADE]..So,that/thus..whether on the actor’s form..its envioning or upon..the MORTAL EYES/SEEING..BY The stately robes..of Hamlet yet/sit..[UPON A STOOL..OF SHHH*IT]

Or..as Macbeth..he rave..TEMPEST and storm, ACT FORLORN/FORELOCK SHON....Or plays burlesque..LIKE THAT OF LOKI....OR CAIN..to please the pit..‘Tis each and all..a work of art,..WE LEARN OF..or yearn but for/but..to practice..THE REVEALING..IN..it.

That constant care..REFINING..DEFINING..and practice means–
The actor..who creates a part...Has done his work DONE..BE-FOR HIM..BY THE UNSEEN..unGLORIFIED GREAT MINDS..BEYOND Mortal gaze..ever present...ever going ON..behind the scenes.

a duel/duet..in the hope
that..we shant beget..that best we forget.
many were called..but..that now..you enjoy..the annoy..of the life giverS..GIFT.

AND..YOU TWO..BOTH DARED..DENEy..*THINK
THAT DEAD..MEANs dead..[LEAVE THE L\REST UNSAID]..this is it.

WETHER..YOUR LIFE..IS GOLD
OR YOUR LIfe is sh*it..that ye dream..in your dreams
makes/up for the rest....of it..AND..[when you die]..you come back..into the passions[of thyne..OWN..dreamtime]..OK BAnjo..tRy..try to channel hiM..2

IM SURE..THYNE PROOF..LIES..JUST IN Thee two..
both of you...

PS..[joh ho/HO..HO..THEY DONT GOT..A CLUE..NOR YOU...but..t.y]

Dear Yuyutsu,

Of course, you are right that to deal with Russell's paradox mathematicians use the term class, which is not easy to explain how different it is from a set, since in everyday language a set of objects and a class of objects mean the same thing.

Another “paradox” one should avoid in everyday language is to claim that “we should love and worship God” who does not exist. That is, unless you agree with Dawkins’ God as a mere mental delusion. Even then, I do not see why you should recommend worshiping a delusion.

Or is it your way to refer to Aquinas’ God not as ens summum (the highest being) but as ipsum esse subsistens (the sheer act to be itself)? Or to Paul Tillich’s contention that God is not merely “a being” but “being itself”?

If you do not like the word being, you could replace it with, for instance, existence. Like “God is existence itself”, which does not make much sense for the uninitiated but at least does not equate God with a delusion.

``````````````BAN JO/GHOST WRITer
through..the tumult..of their..warlike preparation
And the half-stilled..clamour of the drums
Came a voice crying,..‘Lo! a new-made nation,
To her place..in the sisterhood..
our/global common-wealth NATION..comes!’
http://clatterymachinery.wordpress.com/2006/09/03/the-top-20-greatest-banjo-paterson-poems-of-all-time/

And she..came–she was beautiful..a S.U.N...as morning,
With the bloom..of the WATTLE..in her mouth,
Like a young queen..lavishly adorning
Her charms..with the splendors..BOUND BY THE BLOOD and..GUts of the Youth..CRUSHED..INTO WARS DUSTS/mired IN..Betrayed trust.

And the fierce..old nations,/OF waring..looking DOWN/UPon her,
Said,..‘Nay,..surely she..were quickly overthrown,
Hath she strength..for the burden laid..upon her,
Hath..she power to..serve save..amd protect..and guard..EVEN/her own?

Then she spoke,..and her voice was clear..and ringing
In..the ears of the nations..old and gray,
Saying,..‘Hark,..and ye shall hear my children singing
Their war-song..in ever/oLDER-countries..OH/SO far away.

They are..NO strangers..to the tumult..of/the battle,Still/2come.
They are few..but their hearts..are very strong,
‘Twas..but yesterday..they..called unto the BATTLE..JUST/Like..cattle,
But they.now sing..Australia’s marching song.’..forgetting god wAS BEGGED..TO SAve/our QUEEN..NOT HER..global-COLONIZATION/scheme.


Song.of the Austr-alians..in-Action
For.the dis-honour of Australia,..FOR..our mother,

Side by side.with our kin-kind..from over sea,
We have fought..together..and.we have tested one another,
And enrolled..[not payrolled]..among the..COmmon wealth-brotherhood..are we.

There was never..lost..of danger..but..THAT..we sought it
In the fighting,..through the fire,..and..through the flood/blood.
There/was never prize..so costly..in/lives..but we bought it,
Though we paid..for its purchase with..lives our treasure..our blood.

Was there..ever..any road..too rough..for us to travel?
Was there any path.too far for us to tread?
You can track us by the blood drops ..on the gravel
On the roads..that we milestoned..with the destructed COMMON MAN MONEY..wealth..THE BOdies..0f our dead!

And for you,..oh our young-minded..yet old..and anxious mother,
O’er your great gains..keeping watch..service..not servitude and ward,

Neither..OF US fearing..nor despising any other,
yes our lADY..EACH-OTHER..LOVING TOGETHER
We will..hold your possessions..with the s*word.
AND DEFEND..THE LIVING/Sacred..with the..sacred gods..last/world.

wikiseed/wikigeld S.U.n.treaty

. . . . .

Then they passed..to the place...of world-long..sleeping,
The grey-clad figures..with their dead,
To the sound..of their women..softly weeping
And the Dead March..moaning at their head:

And the Nations,..as the grim procession..ended,
Whispered,..‘Child!..But ye have seen..the price we pay,
From War..may we ever be defended,
Kneel ye down,..new-made Sister–

NOW..
Let us Pray!’

the after/living..gets better than this.


______