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The Forum > General Discussion > Proportionally - where does the blame lay.

Proportionally - where does the blame lay.

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Continued;
Don't take Jews or Christians for friends.
If you do, then Allah will consider you to be one of them. (5:51)

Those who disbelieve will be forced to drink boiling water and will face a painful doom. (6:70)

Don't let the disbelievers think they can escape. They are your enemy and the enemy of Allah. (8:59)

Don't make treaties with non-Muslims. They are all evildoers and should not be trusted. (9:7)

Treat converts to Islam well. Kill those who refuse to convert. (9:5)

Christians and Jews are perverse. Allah himself fights against them. 9:30

Stay away from non-Muslims. They are all liars. 9:107

Those who oppose Islam will be slain with a fierce slaughter. 33:60-61

Don't be friends with disbelievers. They are your (and Allah's) enemy. 60:1

This last verse is emphasized from what I have read and is used to
stop muslims from integrating into the country.
They are told by the radical Immans that if they do something that is
permitted by Sharia law or the Koran that the law of the country does
not apply.
No muslim will deny any part of these scriptures.

I believe that the Koran is the ultimate cause of all the troubles
between Muslims and everyone else. The Hadiths just reinforce the
Koran by using episodes in the Life of Mohammad as the perfect example
of man including the genocides of the first years of Islam.
Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 20 March 2019 4:22:11 PM
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Dear Individual,

«I think it was "thou shall not murder."»

More or less correct, but the biblical language does not dissect the world in exactly the same way as English (or even modern Hebrew).

For example, the Hebrew word for "hand" means both the palm of the hand the the lower arm, whereas "arm" means only the upper arm: English language dissects the upper human limb at the wrist, while Hebrew dissects it at the elbow!

«There's even reference to cities of refuge in the old Bible for people who killed rather than murdered.»

Yes in the English translation, but both Deuteronomy 4 and Joshua 20 use the word "murderer" rather than "killer", an inclination of the same word used in the ten commandments. Accordingly, it is possible to murder "by mistake" or "without knowing".

Following through the biblical examples, it appears that "killing" there means the physical act of striking (with or without a weapon or instrument) when that causes death, whereas "murder" includes all causings of death.

So in biblical language, if one poisons another or hires someone else to kill him, then they are a murderer, but not a killer.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 20 March 2019 5:26:39 PM
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Dear Bazz,

«The author is Allah»

And you believe this??

I don't. I firmly believe that the Koran is counterfeit, not the word of God.

Had your statement been correct, then the Koran too would be correct and no Muslim was to blame for following its instructions.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 20 March 2019 5:34:31 PM
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it is possible to murder "by mistake" or "without knowing".
Yuyutsu,
It is my view that a murderer plans & causes the death of another. A killer is someone who (obviously) kills people for money i.e. assassin.
Then you have people who need to be killed because they're plain & simply bad & dangerous.
There's nothing noble or compassionate about keeping animals of human form !
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 20 March 2019 6:04:44 PM
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Dear Individual,

My point was linguistic:

«it is possible to murder "by mistake" or "without knowing".»

In English, no.
According to biblical Hebrew, yes.
They are not the same, so no accurate word-for-word translation is possible.

When "hand" is mentioned in the bible, it also includes the lower arm.
When "murder" is mentioned in the bible, including where it is forbidden by the ten commandments, it also includes what in English is called "manslaughter", but has no exact Hebrew equivalent word.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 20 March 2019 6:53:12 PM
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You are correct it is meant to have deliberate motive which is murder. The English for kill does not express motive as murder does.
Posted by Josephus, Wednesday, 20 March 2019 6:59:59 PM
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