"On the upside, one can take heart that some sectors of our community are more evolved than others - such as the medical profession,"

ROFL Dickie, you mean those ones in hospitals removing the wrong
organ on the operating table? I have a number of doctor friends
and they are no different to anyone else, apart from attitude.

My point about circumcision is that it is still widely practised
in the Western World, see America for instance and now that its shown
to have an effect on HIV spread, will no doubt become more common
in Africa. You then come here and talk about "torture" of animals.
Get real Dickie!

I never mentioned clitoral mutilation, as you well know, thats a
totally different ballgame, causing lifelong trauma for many,
so don't put words in my mouth.

Dickie, did you actually have a real boys childhood? Where you
climbed trees, fell out of them, fell over on your bike, lost a bit
of skin, lost a bit of blood ? That has nothing to do with evolving
at all, just something to do with being a sook and a mommy's boy
as a kid, if you didn't.

If society wants to get serious about pain and suffering, they should
examine what they put old people through, as they slowly let nature
take its course and let them die suffering. The Catholic Church even
tells us that its ok to suffer. If you are a doctor, do you euthanase those suffering or do you let them suffer?

I've come to the conclusion that city people are just so distant
from nature and the real world, they have completely lost touch
with the realities of life alot of the time.

Dickie

Of course you are going to make a difference.

If anything you can say you have helped to show the link between animal cruelty and people who are abusive to other people.
I will be posting again on the Animal Welfare Forum in the next two to three weeks where I hope we can go back to where we were.
Cilivia was doing some speeches in Sydney regarding intensive farming and Scout was busy with a project to involve a larger number of general public. Yabby you may not know strongly supports the cruel live export trade so enough said.
Yabby for your information speaking of unkind acts I listended to your call to Wendy.
I have a small hearing problem due to a car accident so everything is taped in the office as standard.
After reading more of your style or manner it is possibly that there was no intention on your behalf to upset or offend when speaking of the death of her Dad.
However your comment that she was over emotional after just walking through the door from a all day court matter concerning her Dads death was highly insensitive to say the least.

How many people do you know Yabby that would not be upset by their fathers pre mature passing.? [Speaking of Drs.]

You seem to wish to attack any person with concerns about animal welfare.
Your theory of every body being city slickers if you dont agree with them is very childish.
Try to at least consider others have the same right to post.

For the record Wendy does not think you upset her on purpose.

She just thinks its your insensitive way. Also that your naturally rather crude.

There are no hard feelings but your a liar if you are going to keep posting that you didnt say that Yabby because I! heard you.!!

Dickie has raised some good points Yabby so why such aggression.

The Animal welface act is a hundred years old.
It needs a huge change in most areas.

It really is that simple.

Yo Yabby, you do speak with such imperfect utterance amid such frothy rant.

Let's stick to the subject matter - that of surgical treatment on farm animals without the benefit of an anaesthetic and the issue of circumcision without painkillers - since you raised it!

Yabby claims that circumcision is wide spread in the Western world.

UK: Non-therapeutic circumcision in the UK is rare. The BMA considers this practice to be "invasive and radical".

US: The US have more circumcisions than any other western country with the current rate at 59%, down from 80 to 90% in the '70's. All states' statistics show a decline in this practice.

The American Academy of Paediatrics recommends analgesia for all circumcisions. "Pain relief should be provided to the infant undergoing circumcision as the ridiculous belief that infants do not feel pain has been completely refuted".

What was that you said, Yabby?

And your tunnel vision must enable you to astral fly since your rants presume that this poster is: 1. A city dweller, 2. A male 3, Has or had a foreskin, 4. A sooky or a Mommy's boy.

Such presumptions, Yabby! Banging the gums in this manner allows you to dodge the issue and is totally irrelevant!

Thanks for the advice about the little calves being ripped off their mothers 1 or 2 days after birth. I'm not that mad about milk anyway!

I trust you won't go and kick the dog now Yabby!

Dickie, happy to discuss facts! Fact is about a million babies
a year in the US alone are circumcised, if you look at the 90s figures, up to 96% received no anesthetic. Are you telling me
that all those rabbis are now accompanied by an anethatist?

Now go and ask a few of your male friends how many suffer from
the trauma of their snip and if they were "tortured"? sheesh,
such melodrama.

My point again, plenty of human baby boys are circumcised without
anesthetics around the world and its not the end of the world lol.

You need to toughen up a bit Dickie, go spend some time in the
outback!

Antje, frankly I'm not interested in yours and Wendy's little
girls club there. I know what I said to Wendy, you are free to
invent what I said. You go play with Wendy now :)

Yes, and most of us here know how the girls in the office reinvent those phone calls.

Dickie are you one of the crew? It would explain your inability to see the big picture.

Antje – why do you insist on coming in here and bringing up pale and wendy. I cant speak for yabby, but I could not care less how upset any of you are. You reap what you sow Antje.

Get back to listening in to wendy/Tamyn phone calls. (lets just call her BigW from now on shall we?)

Dickie – with your line of thinking you should not eat vegetables either. Ripping living things out of the ground, letting them die, or worse still, throwing them straight into a pot of scalding water – how could you! Theres only one option left dickie!

As he go out, deaf hipocrit yabby take off his cowboy hat and 12 doughnuts fall out!

Strewth, now he reckons I'm a girlie who's never been to the outback!

Recommendations from an outbacker:-

Pleeeeeeese Yabby, I beseech you.......... TAKE YOUR HAND OFF IT!