"Therefore,our concerns will reduce farmers' profits"

Actually not so Dickie, what you do might make you feel better,
but in the bigger scheme of things you don't matter :) World
meat consumption is expected to rise by 20 million tonnes
in the next few years, as places like China consume more,
due to rising incomes. Sadly alot of that will be factory
farmed, not happy farmed.

PF clearly knows her stuff there. Meat lambs are not mulesed.
But just to cheer you up, an anesthetic spray has been put
on the market called Tri Solfen I think, which quite a few
farmers have been buying. Farmers are not allowed to use
normal anesthetics. My vet says is so that we don't kill ourselves,
but I guess then its ok for vets to kill themselves :(

Farmers problems have little to do with meat demand, which is
huge, but rather the system of distribution. What Woolies and
Coles charge for meat has more to do with what the market will
bear, rather then what they pay for animals. They are under
pressure from Super Funds, which you all own to make ever
increasing profits.

I don't see the world black and white like you do. I see some
very happy farm animals, others not so. But then some of the
biggest cruelty and misery I see in mother nature herself.
So its a philosophical question, did that animal have a life
worth living? If I can answer yes to the animals on my place,
then I'm on the right track. Who eats us when we die is for
me not an issue. Even the worms will get you in the end
Dickie :)

Spot on Pigfarmer

The documentary is my only experience of pig farming. But as you say tail docking and castration is still occurring (though you claim castration practices are less common).

Perhaps you have missed my point. I refer to the inane cruelty to these poor critters and I reiterate my point by asking:

Would you like to be castrated without an anaesthetic? Or have your tail docked (if you had one)? I'm certain your answer will be a firm "No"! And how do you know that piglets have little sensation in their tails? So what do you perceive is the difference between the human and the animal's tolerance to pain? Profits? "It's only a pig for God's sake!!?"

And yes, I have seen an animal flyblown. Actually it was a Scottish Collie dog - thanks to the neglect of the "charming" owners who even objected to a merciful euthanasia because vet fees on Sundays are double rates. They planned to dump it in the bush with a bullet in it's head, however, not until they had eaten their lunch!!

Therefore, a flyblown sheep would indeed be a pitiful sight, however, I again ask why this practice is continuing without the benefit of an anaesthetic. I believe I know the answer but would like to hear your reasoning on what appears to be your indifference to the torture of animals.

Thank you for the informative post, Yabby. You say that I won't make a difference. I believe that's not quite correct having read your pleasing advice on Tri Solfen. Surely it would be people like myself who have pressured for this anaesthetic? So even if my efforts remain only parochial, I shall look forward to more satisfactory outcomes.

Interesting to read of your predictions on meat consumption and the potential for more factory farming. We humans never learn. If China is to face more epidemics of animal to human infections then I will not be surprised.

With the continuing unabated increase in population explosion of humans and their impact on the globe, I guess it's not only the animals which are doomed!

"but would like to hear your reasoning on what appears to be your indifference to the torture of animals."

Hang on Dickie, PF can provide her own reasoning, but I will
add my 5c worth here :)

Just check in your underpants to see if you were circumcised.
Are you aware that 97% of baby boys are circumcised without
an anesthetic? If you were, do you remember the traumatic
day?

I really do think that city slickers and country people
have a different perception as to what a bit of pain and
words like "torture" are all about. A friend of mine
was on a station, he chopped his hand open. So he took
a needle and thread, no doctor or anesthetic for miles lol,
sewed it back up with his other hand and a couple of days
later eventually got to see a doctor.

Everyone I know who lives in the country, has incidents where
they lose a bit of skin, a bit of blood, whatever. Its
simply not a drama, it gets better by the morning.
Are you just a great big softie Dickie?

Fact is that mulesing is not at all what Peta claimed it
to be, its a very small piece of loose skin. Lambs are
back grazing and suckling with their moms virtually
right away. Peta made all sorts of outrageous claims of
"dinner sized plate size" and "chunks of flesh", basically
nonsense.

But anyhow, now that Tri Solfen is available, no doubt some
will use it, to even satisfy the nightmares of Peta and
the Dickies of this world.

If you did happen to have lost your foreskin Dickie, I'm sorry
that you were "tortured" as a child :)

"I'm just a poor, simple pr*@#k who can only act on the knowledge I have gained"

Things are not going to change in a hurry if you refuse to listen to what others are saying. Go back and re read my last post.

I do not castrate piglets or tail dock.

I have in the past, but stopped in the belief that it was cruel. What is cruel is watching other uncastrated pigs pack rape another male. Yes, they do penetrate and the evidence is in the blood pouring out its arse. Funny how pigs are not interested in the opposite sex unless they are on heat.

It would have taken me 30 seconds to cut the nuts out of that pig. What would you have prefered? 30 seconds of pain (as perceived by a human) or the rest of your life being hit up the behind? Have you ever cut yourself with a scalpel? Chances are that your blood dripping on the floor will be your first indication. You wouldnt have even felt it.

Its a cold cruel world out there dickie. As Yabby says, nature can be the cruelest of all. We are doing the best we can for our animal. Get out and experience it before you are so quick to judge.

Such valuable information, Yabby. Thank you for your "respectful" response to my eagerness to better understand farming practices in Oz.

I would be grateful if you and Pigfarmer refrained from presuming that my queries are an effrontery to your personal practices.

In response to your apparent view that circumcision is acceptable and seemingly commonplace, I advise the following percentage of males circumcised:

Australian Statistics (circinfo.org) 1970 80 percent, 2000 12 percent

The majority of the medical profession now describe this past practice as genital mutilation and parents now would no doubt need to visit several paeditricians before accessing one who would agree to this now outdated procedure.

No doubt, Yabby, your views extend also to clitoral mutilation since you claim it is only "where they lose a bit of skin, a bit of blood, whatever".

Pigfarmer: Male pigs raping other male pigs is not a revelation since dogs hump each other when there is an imbalance - even human males do it although the genetic reasoning for that is not yet firmly established!! And yes, male animals generally respect the female species and refrain from raping them!!

On the upside, one can take heart that some sectors of our community are more evolved than others - such as the medical profession, therefore, one can hope for a more humane society which extends to all species.

Thank you both for re-enforcing my views on the farming practices of the "lesser" species.