pigfarmer, can you put some more info on the milk stuff on the animal welfare thread please.

When I was a kid it was a certain state government minister with large dairy interests who was restructuring the dairy industry to suit his own needs rather than retailers.

I suspect Yabby may have meant animal welfare supporters in his question. Correct me if I'm wrong.

At a guess most of us do a juggling act just as farmers have to do. There is a balance we all have to find between best practice and what we can afford. The happy times are when the two coincide (Scouts suggestion of the way to kill a fish coincides with a means to get better tasting fish meat).

Yabby, some will be more hypocritical than others but most are trying to find the best balance we can. If by spending more I can make a difference I will generally do so but I'm not interested in spending extra for a fancy label or emotive marketing which does not actually make anything better.

Part of the problem is working our way through the issues to try and work out what is marketing hype and what is making a difference.

R0bert

No can do robert. All finished with that thread.

It would be nice if people bothered to learn a little about the causes they are supporting before they make uninformed statements about peoples livlihoods. A perfect example: if you want to condemn organics at least find out what the word means. Look hard at their own actions before condemning everyone else.

By looking at the label, I meant are they caged eggs, is made from an imported product from a country that does not have acceptable animal welfare standards in place etc.

So Taryn, let me get this straight. You seem to be saying that you
have no problem with ripping calves from their mums at a couple of
days old, as long as those cows can go outdoors etc. Your milk
supply comes first?

Pigfarmer, the fundamentals of the Coles/Woolies saga with milk,
is exactly why so many WA farmers support the live sheep trade.

Fact is that the sheepmeat industry in WA is a rather backward
affair, with a virtual monopoly existing. The moment it doesent
rain, its not rocket science to know that farmers have to sell,
no matter what. If there are hardly any companies competing, it
becomes a nightmare. Thats why WA farmers consistantly get well
below their ES brothers for their mutton. In late July-early
August, when the writing was on the wall, many farmers were
forced to accept 15-18$ for ewes, or 70c a kg carcass weight,
for lack of competition. At the same time live shippers and
even a few ewes were selling for 50-60$, if you could get them
on a boat.

The State Govt here does not seem to give a hoot. Their electors
are in the city, end of story. One company offered to spend
40 million on another works, the Govt would hardly lift its finger
to give them a call.

So farmers overwhelmingly back the live sheep trade, its their
only option given the diabolical situation that exists here.

I do understand were you are coming from yabby. I attend a lot of sheep sales here on the New England and see ewes go for $5 or sometimes no one even wants them. “Not filling ships” is the reason around here for low prices. I admit, my distaste for live export is an emotional one. I will also admit that I am not up to date with improvements in conditions and will go back and look at some of your links. Do animal libbers understand that when a farm animal has no monetary value little will be done for it. Before they all jump on that comment – if a ewe is worth $5, is the farmer going call the vet if its injured? Suppliment its feed thru winter? Etc etc That’s just the reality of it.

There are days when you just wonder if its all worth it. I stick my neck out for free range so that people can see what it is all about. I even invite them to visit the farm. Its usually some ‘do gooder’ city slicker who thinks they know more about pig welfare than I do in a pathetic attempt to ‘catch me out’ on the other end of the phone. They use animal welfare as an outlet for their stupid ego, or bored housewifes stuck at home with the kids (look out tamyn has just ripped that kid off the tit and is racing for the keyboard) Yes, most calls are from woman. Why are they so intent on damaging farmers that are trying to do the right thing? It can only have the reverse effect of what they are saying they are trying to achieve.

"(look out tamyn has just ripped that kid off the tit and is racing for the keyboard)"

ROFL

" Yes, most calls are from woman. Why are they so intent on damaging farmers that are trying to do the right thing? "

I wonder if its just the so called motherly fuzzy feelings, ie
plenty of oxytocin showing itself. The problem is, there are large
differences between species and even within species. A cute little
lamb is really cute, but a thumping big wether, charging full
on at a gate, with far more energy then brains, as it kills itself
in the process, is hard to explain to those who have never worked
with sheep. A mob of freshly shorn wethers, all pushing in one
direction in the yards, can easily squash a couple, bend gates etc.

On the live sheep debate, I really do try and use rational thinking
to weigh it all up, also with uptodate information. I saw how Peta
distorted the mulesing debate, they just never let accurate information get in the way of a good story, it seems.

Most farmers that I have discussed it with, want stock treated humanely, but they also know that sheep behave a little differently
to household pets.

You are correct about the value thinggy. I saw that here this last
winter, when it simply didn't rain. The smart guys quickly sold
some shippers and with that money could buy extra grain to feed the
rest of the flock.

I actually love animals. My two sheepdogs would be the only ones
around here, with their own beanbags near the fire :) But I try
to judge each situation and species separately. In your situation,
you know far more about pigs then me, so I would not comment on
how you farm them. I think alot of city people have watched "Babe"
and relate to pigs on those terms, but I do know that wild pigs
can be savage killers too. Its not all like those Hollywood movies
show it.

Funny you should say that yabby. I just last night watched Babe - pig in the city, with my young grandson. I have avoided watching these movies in the past because I had heard adults say "oh I cried when I watched Babe. Its so sad"

What is sad is that they have completely forgotten that this is a fictional kids movie.

"I want my mum!" If that sow had of been able to get out of her pen and away from her piglets, she would have been long gone before then!
Sows wean their piglets quite young naturally and can be quite aggressive in getting that message across to them.

I appreciated my grandsons comment "that lady is silly. You dont take pigs to the shops" All thru the movie he kept commenting, 'but pigs dont do this or that, runner ducks dont fly' At least he is in touch with reality. More than I can so for a few 'animal welfare' people I know.

Yes, Babe is a cute kids story. Nothing more.