Dear David,

«Self-determination is unfair»

More "1984" stuff? War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength...

For other people, strangers whom you have no ideals in common with and never agreed to have anything to do with, to order you around, telling you which laws you must live by... is fair, while to determine for yourself how and by what guidelines you should live ... is unfair. Don't you love the Big Brother?

Self determination means that those who feel second-class and do not like it, should declare their own independence over their part of the land, where they can then feel first-class.

Enjoy the winter, David!

David F: "Self-determination is unfair, undemocratic and an instrument of oppression. It has come to mean a nation formed on the basic of a religious, ethnic or racial paradigm."

Can't speculate on what Woodrow Wilson "thought" or "wanted" but Australia has self-determination and yes it was formed on the basis that David describes and did not evolve into a state fairly comparable with David's final paragraph setting out what a nation should be until it had self-determination and was no longer a vassal of Britain.

Next step an Australian republic to make self-determination perfectly clear, and possibly the repudiation of the ANZUS treaty under which we are Deppity Dawg to American colonial adventures (we have to go to their aid, they don't have to come to ours despite the threat from Moslem Indonesia).

EJ,

As the vast majority of those "refugees" from Israel were born outside the country they have no claim to citizenship of "Palestine"

Dear EJ,

Political independence is not the same as self-determination. Self-determination means that a nation is formed on the basic of a religious, ethnic or racial paradigm. Australia is composed of people having many ethnicities, many religions and of many races. Self-determination would occur if Australians split into many nations based on identity politics. Instead of doing that Australians manage to live together and in general accept and get along with other Australians with different ethnic, racial and religious backgrounds.

Verballed again by the pro Zionist lobby! See my

"And they have every right by birth to live there. As equal individuals along with the rest of the people born in Palestine, together with the involuntary Palestinian exiles from the invasion (Naqba) and their families who wish to return home."

And their families. On this thread.

The "debating" practices of Zionists and other frauds include rewriting what others have written and then taking issue not with what the others have written but with what the fraud has changed.

I noticed that practice also in responses to AJ Phillips on the marriage thread,

Re David F:

Not bothered which expression is used to describe a nation controlling its own decisions (subject to universal human rights norms) on its own territory -- that's what must always be made to apply in Australia and what in Australia needs defending and consolidating.

It does not for example describe Britain whose self-determination/political independence is compromised by EU diktats from outside its territory. Nor does it currently describe Palestine.