Both ROBERT & ONTHEBEACH have a pretty reasonable appreciation of the current climate concerning police shootings and armed civilian response to those shootings.

To my untrained eye it would appear that the United States and it's people, including some of my friends, are rapidly sliding into the deep abyss of self-annihilation, under the muzzle of the almighty gun. Bloody guns !

Up until perhaps the last thirty, thirty five years, British police were not armed. Nor were many criminals, including the 'hard heads'. In fact the major crime against the State, was knocking over a Securicor Armoured CIT Van. The weapon of choice - a threat of ammonia, occasionally acid in the face, if it all went bad ! No guns were necessary. When detectives raided these crooks abode, they were never armed, only with truncheons and handcuffs, is all.

I honestly can't see any salvation for the American people and as I said earlier, I've still got some really good friends living there including my former instructors and teachers both in the Bureau and a number of large Police Departments, on the East Coast.

The main obstacle to any sort of structured gun reform, is the NRA. And they're far too politically influential with Congress, to be motivated by the absolute moral urgency, of a nation wide gun moratorium. Even deploying martial law, to thoroughly clean out all the refuge's which conceal many of these heavily armed gang members, of either, white, black, or Latino ethnicity, might work ?

What a tumultuous mess this once great, United States of America is in, and without the slightest notion of how to extricate themselves out of it; just as long as the answer's not to be found in:- 'gun control'.

Hasn't anyone noticed what is likely to happen to you if you point a knife at police in Australia?

" ..how the UK would be getting on if it had inherited the multicultural social problems of the US.."
US Democracy= shoot the British , so there's a stumble at the starting gate. UK outlawed slavery 30 years before the civil blood-bath so that's another set-back. UK has columns or buildings to honour royals while US makes giant facial copies of Almighty Presidents. And say guns are to protect people against their US government . ( see first sentence)

Dear o sung wu,

Thank you for that perspective. I appreciate the thought that went into it.

As you say neither of us were there but what I find extraordinary is that the officer thought it was appropriate in the circumstance to fire and extra round into this unarmed man as he lay dying on the road.

These are some of my thoughts.

There is obviously a difference in the way our police forces are trained and certainly that has something to do with the proliferation of guns in the US. Anyone who would want that for our country needs to given short shrift.

But I'm wondering if there is a cultural aspect that needs to be given more weight. The death penalty still has wide support in the US. The willingness to take a life may well be more instinctive even ingrained.

Further in an ultra materialistic society protection of 'stuff' warrants potentially taking a life. I for the life of my can not conceive of shooting someone who I caught breaking in or stealing my car, but in the US it almost seems obligatory.

But for me the sense of 'never give a sucker an even break', 'winner take all' and 'victory at all costs' that seems to permiate the US culture is a marker of difference. I for one find Mixed Martial Arts where two men are put in a cage to fight to the finish with only the most basic of rules distills this perfectly. In boxing when you knock your opponent down you go to a neutral corner to wait to see if he can continue. In MMA you are allowed to beat him into submission on the canvas. Perhaps I am getting old but I find it extremely distasteful but it is very American.

I keep returning to the clip from The Wire I posted earlier, 'policing for the community' vs 'it's a war out there' are distinctly different approaches to the same situations. Differences in attitude drive different approaches.

Dear R0bert,

Thank you for you input.

You wrote;

“Dylan Noble appeared to be repeatedly ignoring very clear instructions about what he was required to do and in my view played a major and unnecessary role in aggravating a tense situation. Initial instructions to put both hands on the windscreen were seemingly ignored judging by the repeated calls for him to perform that action. He left the vehicle without being instructed to do so. From what I saw of the incident he did not comply fully with any of the quite simple instructions he was given.”

Should any of those actions have resulted in him losing his life? The fact that he was obviously confused should not have been a death sentence. Perhaps he could have been mentally ill, or under the influence of drugs but neither of these are a reason to kill him.
As in England and what is taught to police in Victoria rolling containment could have been used but it wasn't. By not fully complying with the instructions the person was deemed to have failed the 'attitude test' and was gunned down then shot again as he lay dying. I don't think 99% of Australians would deem what occurred to have been warranted at all. You seem to think otherwise.

Hi (again) STEELEREDUX...

Off topic a little, nevertheless I had to make a comment ? This 'Mixed Martial Arts' rubbish should be completely banned everywhere. It's simply an expression of unequivocal violence without rules, confined in a cage. I boxed professionally, early in the seventies, (preliminaries 6 & 8 rounders) with permission of Force Command, and the sport was well organised and regulated, in terms of either combatant getting hurt.

However this MMA nonsense, should be immediately outlawed ! If anyone wishes to see a really good 'stink', I could introduce you to some blokes I know who're currently languishing in Long Bay Gaol, who can really go the knuckle', and would absolutely 'eat' any of these MMA types. Unfortunately it's their ability to quickly dispatch other so called tough guys, that's landed them in 'Long Bay' in the first instance !