Beach, I don't know where you were in 1970, a twinkle in your fathers eye perhaps, I really don't care, and I don't care what you say, think or do. The word 'sapper' abbreviated to 'sap' was in common use in both the Australians and British Army's in WWI. It pertained to the men who did a fair amount of the heavy work, specialists engineers, miners etc. In civilian life the abbreviated form sap was often applied to a fellow worker, who although a hard worker, did what the boss said without question or complaint. Later it got into general use as a word for anyone who done what they were told without question. It was never any more than a mild form of insult. To give an example, in the school yard the teach might say "Everybody pick up papers." To which you would make the most pathetic attempt at paper picking up. If you seen another kid madly picking up papers you might say "Beach, what do you think your doing." To which Beach would reply "Picking up papers like sir said to." Then the reply would be "Beach, don't be such a Sap!" I certainly heard it many time being applied to blokes who allowed themselves to be conscripted, You might be told "So and So, has got the call up", the answers could well be "What a sap!" . If you know better, know all, feel free to say so. This coming from a bloke who reckon's half the worlds population are members of some secret society, The Fabians.

The protests against conscription were already going in earnest well before Australia's entry to Vietnam. It was very clearly understood that government had a social contract NOT to introduce conscription.

That social contract was regarded very seriously by all sections of society and supported by the military, who have always regarded conscription as a poor source of willing, trainable recruits of good stamina.

A second, but by no means secondary social contract of government with the Australian people was that the Australian army was ONLY to be deployed in the defence of Australia against an identified, imminent threat. If some here are interested, they should investigate why Australia had two armies in WW2.

That is why Menzies took pains to develop the 'Domino Theory' excuse for involvement in Vietnam. He was determined too that it was to be typecast as a 'police action', anything but a war (the social contract 'impediment'). Some added that government, both sides, parsimony regarding likely repatriation entitlements decreed 'police action' as preferable to 'war'. It was later that government, ALL political parties (and the RSL!), stood arms locked denying Vietnam Veterans recognition for war service, and their families their rightful support.

Menzies endeavored to have his cake and eat it too: the 'Domino Theory' presumed an eventual direct threat to Australia (assisted by the widespread ignorance in government, both sides, to the history of Vietnam, its culture and traditions), but at the same time it was inconvenient to call it a war, because of the deep and long debates that would inevitably result.

It is interesting that none of the political parties presently represented in the federal Parliament want to talk about government's social contracts, particularly in relation to sending troops overseas. Still they coyly refer to 'support' and 'training', but the public understands war to be war. They are quickly reminded of that when the body bags are unloaded.

to be continued..

contd..

The history of Australia's entry to and participation in Vietnam doesn't need re-writing:

- Yes, the NLF was Communist controlled and that was never going to turn out good for the South.

- No, there wasn't a snowflake's chance in Hell of sorting the political corruption and installing democracy. Democracy took hundreds of years to develop in Europe, remember?

- No, Diem was never the best alternative out of all bad alternatives, but would any other have turned out to be the same?

- No, 'government' never even attempted to understand Vietnam, and anyhow once it becomes mired in party politics, if a camel is the end result that would be a far better outcome than usual.

- Yes, the Australian army did win in Vietnam by doing its best and keeping its vows to Australia.

Dear O Sung Wu,

I doubt whether anyone can fully understand what
you and others experienced fighting in Vietnam.
I know from family members and family members of
friends, who fought, - one had a total mental break-down,
another will not discuss his experiences to this
day. Both came back changed men.

We should remember the families, the parents, the wives and the
children - those who live, until they die, with the
pangs of loss. For those left behind, it is often the small
things from which they take comfort - a badge, or button from
a uniform or the last letter received.

Australians should never forget the heavy price soldiers pay.
Sacrifice is an uncommon virtue. And a virtue that we, successive generations, can in a much smaller way return - by remembering the
soldiers who come back and those who fell.

Well at the real risk of receiving a 'hiding' from that ego driven narcissistic pretender, STEELEREDUX I've tentatively emerged from my 'hutchie' to check if the smoke's cleared ?

You really are a joke, with your benign little threats and absurd little 'dares', almost childlike in the extreme ? I reckon I've figured you out ? You're really, really insecure. You have this ego so bloated with righteous indignation, you reckon everyone should tread carefully whenever they're in your metaphoric presence !

Privately though, whenever a word, phrase, or sentence 'stings you', you quietly 'blubber' away to yourself, 'cause the offending individual failed to acknowledge your unique omniscience ! Who in hell do you think you are, you big girl ? Why in hell don't you 'grow up' for everybody's sake, and stop acting like a 'spoilt girls blouse', and cry baby !

Oh before I forget, you 'justly' (your words) accuse me of being 'complicit in conspiracy to murder' ? Well, let me share a little fact with you 'Steelie' baby, it's well we're enjoying a quiet chat, and not bracing the public bar some place, you can make book on that...? Now, don't get all bitter 'n twisted, moreover don't cry, I don't like kids, in the guise of adults blubbering !

In conclusion, I dearly hope...actually I'll re-phrase that 'STEELIE'; I INSIST that you bring to bare all that alleged loquacity and garrulousness you reckon you've got stacked away in abundance, and use it you big fraud 'n fake ! Bring it on ! Time for lunch.

The aftermath:

"HUMAN RIGHTS IN VIETNAM
Vietnam’s human rights record remains weak in all key areas. The government suppresses virtually all forms of political dissent, using a broad array of repressive measures. Freedom of expression, association and public assembly are tightly controlled. Religious activists are harassed, intimidated and imprisoned. State-run drug rehabilitation centers exploit detainees as forced laborers making goods for local markets and export. The criminal justice system lacks independence and operates under the direction of the government and party."

http://www.hrw.org/asia/vietnam

Read further and you will see that it is President Obama who has approved US arms sales to Vietnam. 'The Obama administration announced on Oct. 2 that it was relaxing a decades-old ban on sales of lethal military equipment to Vietnam' (comments section).

'Progressives'(?!), what a misnomer that is for the leftist 'libertarians' who adopt it, such as Barak Obama in this example.

One could imagine though, that if it wasn't a leftist approved Communist' regime but some dictator who abusing the Vietnamese people, the leftist 'Progressives' would be arguing for intervention by the US and others.

All people want is food, shelter and somewhere safe to raise their families, preferably without the State continually horning in to direct them how to live their personal lives.