"IS MISE...

Who was tortured by the Military - the only 'so called' famous person that I heard of who ended up being sent to 1 MCE was a TV presenter, Simon TOWNEND ? Tortured was he ? How so, and how do you know ?
Posted by o sung wu, Friday, 3 October 2014 8:48:52 PM"

William White was the blokes name and while he was incarcerated at 1MCE he was deprived of sleep by having the light on at all times and was woken by shouting and loud noises etc. to cut a long story short at a Court hearing he called an Australian Army Officer as an expert witness.
This officer was an Instructor from the School at North Head where selected personnel were trained to resist torture by being subjected to torture (with medical supervision).
His evidence was that what White had been subjected to was torture within the Australian Army's definition of torture.

A bit on William White.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_White_(conscientious_objector)

Hi (again) ONTHEBEACH...

I really don't know anything further relating to SAP or SAPPER other than what I described earlier on.

Concerning the particular fitness of those earlier Artillery blokes, it does make sense considering the weight of everything to do with an artillery piece, and the shells they use. The concussion that comes from one when fired is quite extraordinary. It's a wonder why many of them don't end up with severe hearing problems, even though they use hearing protectors.

IS MISE...

I've not heard of this bloke WHITE. The only fellow that I've heard of, who identified himself as a CO was this Simon TOWNSEND that I'd previously referred to. I believe he had a TV show titled 'Wonder World' (I think) Anyway after some well publicised court appearances, he was ultimately sent to 1MCE, where he remained for about a fortnight. Problem was, no Conscience Objector was ever actually sworn-in to the Army, on what authority were they held, I wonder ?

I've been through the place a couple of times, when I was with the civvie coppers and I'd agree, I'd not wish to be sent there. Torture in the traditional sense of the word, I wouldn't know ?

Strict discipline, most definitely, including the shortest of haircuts, immaculate uniforms etc. Not that much more intense, than what you'd expect at 1 RTB at Kapooka. I believe MCE has closed it's doors and errant servicemen do their CB at their own base. Or if their offence serious enough, at the closest gaol.

I'm not sure locking these people up served any real purpose ? Obviously they were set in their ways, as was their mindset. Why punish someone purely because of their attitude ? The Army could do little to modify their beliefs no matter how tough a CSM/RSM might be ? Go overboard with them, could produce suicides. I've seen a couple of lads who were forced to go to boarding schools attempt it, with one very nearly succeeding.

O Sung Wu,

I hope that you never ate in the mess at 1 MCE; the prisoners used to do some very inventive things to the food, nothing that would cause sickness but which did give a lot of satisfaction to the perpetrators.; discrete expectoration and clandestine urine samples contributed to the culinary delights.

I had occasion to visit the place to do weapons inspections, I always arrived after lunch.

I also knew the DAPM Eastern Command socially and when my then enlistment was up he offered me a good position with the Provos but I declined as I'd had enough of the army and wanted a bit of civvy street; besides which my father had told me that if I ever joined the Provos not to bother coming home.

Dear o sung wu,

That was more like it! Still a bit of bark in the old dog yet I'll say. And despite the repetitions it was at least coherent.

I mean the normal generous scoops of hypocrisy were there in abundance, and yet again you completely dodged answering the accusation you have besmirched and defamed the good name of those who served in Vietnam by your insistence they would shoot out of hand an unarmed individual, but on the whole a far better effort.

What was pleasing as well was your latest post to paul1405. The nasty, vicious, cowardly attacks on him were were markedly tempered. If aiming your 'spleen venting' in my direction instead has in some small way contributed to it then we must consider it a good thing.

And this made a bloke chuckle out loud. “You really are a joke, with your benign little threats” then you bluster “it's well we're enjoying a quiet chat, and not bracing the public bar some place, you can make book on that”. Lol.

But I see you have company.

OTB wrote;

Quote;

Paul 1405, "There were those that blamed the soldiers for their participation, calling them "baby killers". That was not my personal view, I never blamed the "sappers" as we called them".

Yet you quite deliberately chose to repeat the groundless insult here! I have never heard of that insult in Australia. It is part of that rather obvious and clumsy name-calling and sledging you do, isn't it? Always trying to attach a label to poison the well.

End quote.

Yet it was you who had earlier introduced the term into this thread with “I'll dispense with the usual pleasantries as they appear to upset PAUL1405, that brave soul who stood alone against the hoards of marching 'baby killers' on their way to embark on the HMAS Melbourne and on to Vung Tau, South Vietnam.”

Go figure.

Anyway old chap, better marks for coherency, improvements in courtesy, but consistency still needing heaps of work. See, skipping the afternoon sherries pays a dividend.

Beach, no Kiwi or Islander in me, unless you count my partner who's Kiwi. Nah, 5 generations Australian on the old mans side and up to 1,000 generations give or take a few on Mum side, something unfortunately she denied until later in life (always said the black people in her family were from of all places Mauritius in the Indian Ocean, according to a cousin who did a family tree some years back that was true. sort of, one was a girl who become an indentured servant (wife) to a farmer in NSW).
Not knowing the origins of the word "sapper", sap for short I though you may have been of European ancestry German most likely, possibly Italian.
Interesting, how colloquialism enter the language a most interesting common term used today from WWI is the word "Furphy" to tell a bit of a lie. Interesting how the name off a water barrel became to mean telling untruths. Maybe you can look that one up in your old newspapers.