Hi there FOXY...

Many thanks for your kind remarks and your personal reflections on the subject of Vietnam. I was thinking about it, and it was a bit over forty six years ago I first saw the 'Dat' as it was often referred to by Vets. Actually it was Nui Dat where the ATF (Australian Task Force) were based during the war.

I don't discuss my time over there either, even though I was fortunate enough to escape without any significant harm. While it's true, I'm in receipt of a 100% military disability pension, I was able to work almost up to my mandatory retirement age anyway. I was actually invalided out of the police, about six years prior to my mandatory retirement age. The reasons were (apparently) considered a sequela to my military service ?

The issues that I think really disturbed me most, and many many others, was coming home here to OZ. Many of those who were against the war, unfortunately took it out on the veterans themselves. Blaming them for all the (alleged) atrocities the media sought to report.

An incident that I'll never forget, happened one ANZAC day. After parking the car, my wife and I headed down Market St, between Castlereagh & Elizabeth towards the March. Being all dressed up, we were approached by three youngish looking women. Suddenly, in front of my wife, they all spat on me, all the while shouting and swearing, and calling me a rapist and murderer etc. I was completely astonished, gobsmacked, as it all happened in front of my 'now' very upset wife !

I'll not insult yours and anyone else's intelligence by saying, 'hand on heart' allied troops all wore the proverbial white hats ? Because they didn't - I refer you to the Mei Li massacre and ors. That event was murderous, nothing else. But there was only a very small proportion of soldiers who behaved in such deplorable circumstances. Were children shot, of course they were. The enemy and their sympathisers often tried some very nasty ploys, with the use of kids.

Dear O Sung Wu,

I'm so sorry to hear that you were attacked in such
a vile manner in front of your wife. Vietnam veterans
both in Australia and in the US suffered a great deal
on their return and I believe it's taken them a long
time to be fully recognised and acknowledged even in
war museums and monuments. Hopefully that has now
been rectified, although probably too late for some.

Take care and stay strong.

o sung wu, "Many of those who were against the war, unfortunately took it out on the veterans themselves"

If you obtained that perception it is unfortunate, understandable but regrettable, because it is simply not the case that it was 'most' and they were not ordinary citizens, including students either. Perhaps you could shed a load of bad thoughts if you could come to accept the truth: that it was always that small, nasty, bunch of assorted anarchists, communists and ne'er do wells, trouble makers, that were thoroughly disliked and deterred by the organisers of the student and other legitimate moratorium marches.

o sun wu, you must know from recent events for instance the two feral women who chose as part of their nightly entertainment to abuse an old chap on a bus, and from you long police experience, that the huge majority of the Australian population are ordinary, respectable, even-tempered folk of good nature and good will who would recoil in horror at a veteran being abused and likely take action as well.

What I will say though is that it has become fashionable in some quarters to disrespect anything good in the world and s[bleep]t flows down from the top. We all saw that not so long ago when some brainless, jealous types, all wannabes, rubbished a young SAS soldier and VC winner, a fine upstanding example of manhood, a sterling citizen and a family man who had served his country bravely. On OLO there were the usual small-minded jealous pests who acted as might be expected of them - 'monkey see, monkey do'.

In answer to your OP, our heroes will never become villains and the public can be relied upon to eventually see through the spin of villains. So disregard the tripe that some push as just that, tripe.

Life is like that.

G'day there ONTHEBEACH...

Wow mate, you know more about the historical background of Vietnam then I'd ever know ! I say this with the utter most respect, your knowledge amazes me, it really does.

I reckon you're pretty right when you say that successive governments have ignored the 'Vietnam question'. Which I guess proves it was one of the most unpopular conflicts in modern history. I think I've always known that the former South Vietnam government were patently corrupt, and totally ruthless in every way.

You're spot on with your assertion that Vietnam Vets. were on the nose, both from government and the RSL, an organisation I don't have a great deal of time for ? I was stationed at Burwood, for some years and a few of the shift used to go to the RSL after work for a couple of cold tubes. Some wore WW2 and Korean ribbons, they were full members of the then Sub-Branch, myself I was permitted social membership only ? Yet I wore my own two ribbons on my uniform myself ! That did change later, but at the time it didn't feel all that fair nor honourable. Of course one never wore one's uniform into the club anyway when off-duty, a case of a jumper or coat over it. When working, uniforms were the go, naturally.

Yours and PAUL1405's knowledge of the term 'sap' is interesting ! The term Sapper is a rank in the Corps of Engineer's, as is 'Bombardier' used by the 'Drop Shorts' - Corps of Artillery, who I've great respect for. They've often saved the 'butts' of the Infantry.

A bit of trivia for you ONTHEBEACH, I expect you'd already know this ? Anyway are you're aware that all PTI's used by the Army and the AFP (Fed. Police) are trained and are part of the Royal Australian Corps of Artillery ? I've never understood why ? Logic would suggest, they should form part of the School of Infantry ? As it's the 'grunt' (rifleman) who's doing all the running around, carrying all the heavy Infantry ordnance etc. ?

ONTHEBEACH our respective threads are, like two lonely ships passing in the night ?

Ok, I unreservedly withdraw my poorly conceived and hastily written remarks completely. You're correct, and I'm not, simple as that.

But in my own defence it certainly 'felt' like the entire country was against us. Not many of us really understood the reasons why ? Oh sure we heard, and we were told before embarkation that the war had not be received very well by people back home. Twelve months away is not an eternity, nevertheless it seemed it was, when you're incredible homesick, and your mind can conjure up images of all sorts of things, neither fact nor fiction generally, particularly considering all the conflicting information we were receiving at the Dat ?

You're obviously correct ONTHEBEACH, a comment made without too much rational thought, no excuse I realise, I'll need to do better in future ?

Hi (again) FOXY...

Indeed it was, I think I was more shocked than she was ? I'd been home for in excess of ten years by then, and to have such an incident occur on a city street, on ANZAC day, was truly astounding. Had I been alone, or under different circumstances I may well have pinched all three, for at least affray and assault, but three 'ladies' would prove a bit of a handful, so best walk on ? It didn't add too much to the day unfortunately. When I met up with my mates with whom I usually marched, they were all for trying to track 'em down ! I really didn't think that was too good an idea, particularly after the March and the 'good cheer' had started flowing freely ?

As time goes by I suppose there may well be a moment or two of humour there somewhere ? Half a dozen Vets with an abundance of good cheer on board, trying to track down this trio of 'lovely' ladies ? Emmmm!

o sung wu,

What I was disputing earlier was the claimed PUBLIC usage of sapper and sap. Because it is very hard to imagine those terms being in common use by the Australian public at the time.

Anyway, common usage would have ensured that the terms would have popped up regularly in the newspapers which does not appear to be the case at all.

Maybe Paul1405 has Kiwi or Islander heritage. There are differences across the ditch.

Artillery would require physical fitness, especially years ago. Otherwise I have no idea - but in the peacetime army the game of protecting and acquiring territory (functions mainly) seems to occupy 90% of the time of many.