Paul,

You are right that 'furphy' originated from the name of a water barrel [water cart] but it does not mean a lie but rather a rumour.

See:http://www.furphys.com.au/the-furphy-water-cart/water-cart-re-barreling.html
and links to the company today.

Although I'd browsed through topic, I wasn't going to post, that is, until I watched the film "Empire of the Sun" on SBS last night, based on the semi-autobiographical book by JG Ballard. If you haven't seen it, the main character is a 12 yr old English boy who end up in a Japanese internment camp in China in WW2. The camp is adjacent to an air-field which the internees helped to build.

Here is an extract from Wikipedida:

"Flying symbolizes Jim's possibility and danger of escape from the prison camp. His growing alienation from his prewar self and society is reflected in his hero-worship of the Japanese aviators based at the airfield adjoining the camp. "I think it's true that the Japanese were pretty brutal with the Chinese, so I don't have any particularly sentimental view of them," Ballard recalled. "But small boys tend to find their heroes where they can. One thing there was no doubt about, and that was that the Japanese were extremely brave. One had very complicated views about patriotism [and] loyalty to one's own nation. Jim is constantly identifying himself, first with the Japanese; then, when the Americans start flying over in their Mustangs and B-29s, he's very drawn to the Americans."

I post this as a comment on the complexities of patriotism, with no particular reference to David Hicks etc.

SteeleRedux, "Yet it was you who had earlier introduced the term into this thread with “I'll dispense with the usual pleasantries.."

You falsely attribute that quote to me. However it is there in B&W to prove it was not mine at all.

Paul1405,

Again, there is NO record of the word 'sap' or 'sapper' ever being applied to Vietnam veterans by the student organisers or others who arranged and spoke at the moratoriums. While some military may have used it themselves and for precise application, there is no evidence of the terms ever being in common use by the public. Why you would ever want to abuse Vietnam Veterans as 'saps' only you know, but it does fit with your usual presentation on OLO.

You may have got it from old Hollywood movies, where low society types referred to the gullible as 'saps'.

Another poster has kindly corrected your misunderstanding of the the usage of Furphy.

Are you sure you are not of Kiwi or Islander extraction?

Cossomby,

I recorded it but won't have a chance to watch till this evening.

Amongst the current spate of old films and new documentaries about war, especially WW1, I was blown away by a recent 4-part documentary also on SBS: '14 Diaries of the Great War'. It seems to have been co-produced by all sides: Germany, France, Canada etc.

As the title indicates, it is based on 14 personal diaries reflecting a variety of experiences, soldiers and civilians, men and women (and children). Countries on both sides are represented, but with the emphasis on the European experience (Australia and Gallipoli get just a brief mention). Events from the diaries are dramatised and intercut with actual footage; we follow the experiences of the diarists through the 4 years in the 4 episodes.

In contrast to the (good) modern dramatisations, I found this extremely hard to watch, the stories and the contemporary footage are so raw. (One memorable story is that of 14 year old Marina Yurlova who became a child soldier in the Cossack cavalry. She survived (just) and died in 1984, age 84.)

Everyone was patriotic to their own side. Everyone fought on in the face of appalling experiences.

As I get older (born during WW2), and see wars come and go, and learn more about past wars, I often wonder: why didn't everyone just say (especially in WW1) 'this is madness, we are stopping right now'? Of course, letting WW1 proceed in madness, resulted in WW2, and the Korean War, and the Vietnam War, and various other wars of decolonisation and has fed into the eternal conflict in the Middle East.

Catch 22 of course. If you went crazy, you could be taken out of battle. But you had to be crazy to keep fighting. But if you recognised this, and wanted to stop, you were sane, and if you were sane you had to keep fighting

G'day there IS MISE...

No, I never had the pleasure of participating in luncheon at 1MCE. Just as well by the sound of it ! Being a fairly small establishment as it was, did it still maintain three separate messes for staff ? From memory (I stand to be corrected) the facility was staffed by all three services, but commanded by the Army ? Fact or fiction I dunno ?

You mixed with some fairly lofty people with the DAPM of Eastern Command in 'Paddo' ? By the by, I'd hate to try and purchase property there now, Paddington being very much the preserve of the well heeled.

I reckon it would take a special sort of bloke to sign on with the Provo's. I had a bit to do with them when I was working, and most seemed OK, still I wouldn't want to get on their wrong side when I was doing my six. I realise you're a Korean Vet. still you may've heard of the infamous 'white mice' in Vietnam ? Anyway, there have been a few Aussie grunts that owe the Oz Provo's for saving their sorry hides from ending up in the clutches of the 'mice'. It was said, if they (the mice) didn't shoot you, you'd just disappear ?! I don't know about the latter, but their weapons saw plenty of use !