Agronomist,

As a retailer most of my life, albeit, not tobacco, , there is little doubt that the whole plain packaging has caused confusion for retailers as every packet looks the same.

Furthermore, youth don't buy them, il cover that later.

So when someone askes for a pack of say winny blues, first, the seller has to hope they have been put in their right place, and second, they have to show the buyer so that they are satisfied with what they have been sold. This all takes time, and time is money.

Also, as costs increase, addicts will often search out a cheaper brand, because there's only so much they can redirect from their budget. So comparing dollars as a gauge can distort the truth.

Now we agree that The whole plain packaging fiasco was aimed at preventing our youth from starting the habit, but, the majority of youth that start smoking, bum their smokes, they don't buy them, so, why should they care what brand they are.

Then of cause there is the law suit, which, even if we win, will cost millions if not billions to defend, which by the way, we don't have.

The sad part about all governments is that they just don't have the talent needed to get things right. They are all guilty of shockers and always will be, but certainly no more so than the last six years if labor. If so, carry on regardless.

Poirot, are you suggesting Tony has not stopped the boats?

As for the budget, I note that not one labor/green supporter has an alternative, other than more of the same that got us into this mess in the first place. Unless you're one of those who insist there's nothing to worry about.

One things for certain, that being that if the boats stop coming, labor will have a huge sell to get back in, because the first thing they will have to do is reignite the spending, which brings with it their appalling record of waste.

The LIES keep coming thick and fast from this fascist clique.
No one believes a word the murdoch rags put out unless they are brain damaged. This "story" has already been shown to be lies and distortions multiple times.
Does anybody really believe tobacco industry research? Is anybody really that stupid? The industry that "proved" tobacco does not cause cancer and that nicotine is not addictive? The industry that made/makes millions killing its customers?
Not suprisingly all the LIARS are out in force trying to convince us that black is white, excrement smells like perfume and that big glowing thing outside all day is the moon.
Shallow miniature and his ilk will believe anything, no matter how outlandish, if it supports their mindless dogma of greed, selfishness and hatred.

Interesting to see the mention of the black market being around for years.

Two things come to mind here, One, the price difference is now huge, and Two, online shopping is fast catching up to retail shopping. Both these factors influence the black market.

However nothing confirms the underlying flaw in labors policy quite like the fact it was aimed at our young smokers, most of whom can't even by them because a large portion of smokers start prior to age 18.

Dear Poirot,

Yes it has been a while, since our TLOAs I believe. The break must have done us both some good and I see we have become a little more selective on the topics we engage in, understandably so in the current climate. I think keeping it fun might be the key and you seem to have that in hand :)

Dear Shadow Minister,

I am going to, for the sake of the exercise, set aside the fact that we are attempting to weigh the evidence of the Australian Bureau of Statistics or the figures provided by infoView in a study commissioned by British American Tobacco.

Let us take their argument that even though the overall spend on tobacco products has decreased it is purely because there is a trend toward cheaper cigarettes. And let's take their figure of how many extra individual cigarettes (0.3%) have been sold over the last year as a given. The Australian population increased by 1.8% in the same period.

Therefore, even accepting everything they say, the only conclusion is that there has been a decrease in per capita consumption of cigarette and other tobacco products and it follows, based on the claims they made, that plain packaging works.

I will need you to tell me why this is not the case.

patriot/i visited your link
but it shifts before i can read it
so i edited it down..to its main bits
[]believe it/or\not..its good-sign.by design.
the guilty..are concerned..new way-day..on the way.

quote..

Arrangements had been made for the Prime Minister to meet Jack Lew, the US Treasury Secretary. He was also scheduled to hold talks with Christine Lagarde, managing director of the International Monetary Fund, and World Bank president Jim Yong Kim.

The meetings were locked into the diaries of those key officials. Then the arrangements were cast into doubt by Abbott’s office.

the whole G20 exercise is costing Australia almost half a billion dollars — $476.7 million to be precise. That is an indication of its importance.

reform of the IMF is one of the items on the summit agenda.

Lew’s advice will play a major role in how Barack Obama approaches the summit and its success will depend heavily on an engaged US President.

given America’s influence on the world economy, previous prime ministers have regarded meeting the US Treasury Secretary as a high priority

Abbott is not taking the G20 summit as seriously as he should “and that’s a worry”.

There is plenty of room for speculation about the reasons top-level economic meetings seem to be treated as optional in Abbott’s Washington program. Some critics will home in on his 2003 comment that left the then treasurer, Peter Costello, hugely unimpressed.>>

OUG "yet we smokers never get a cent[its our pack a day that pays your rent."

Well do yourself and your health a favour then OUG, and give up the disgusting habit, and then these mad theories of yours will just disappear...

I don't care what government did what, I just want to see smoking slowly die the painful death it has caused so many to endure over the years.

I hope I live to see smoking die forever...