crackers/quote..<<..Greed is the overall enemy of this..and every other so-called Democracy in the world today>>

well summed up..[2B..CTD]

producer..DUE.TO POST LIMITS HERE/AND OTHER TOPC
your LATEST..reply is here
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6293&page=8

I SEEM TO/RECALL SOME YANKI SAYING ONCE..'WE' ARE A REPUBLIC..NOT A democracy...[well australia is a colony..run by governer-generals[ir run by armed forces..under threat of judiciary /statuted law..[of the high seas/and maritime laws..[anyhow i too revile demonic auto-crazey]

neverthe less as craker say..the key ISSUE=GREED
WHICH YOU PRODUCER..REPEAT..<<..Greed is a human condition that afflicts..us all too some degree.>>

THATS LIKELY TRUE..[AS LIFE GAS TAUGHT US THE EARLY WORM..GEts the worm/but this was only by primitive fears/childishness inducing selfishness..or even penus envey..[we are borN INTO AN AGE OF PLENTY/SO MUCH SO THE ONLY POWER SOME HAVE LEFT..is PATHETIC POWWR TO HURT OTHERS FOOLISH/ENOUGH..TO COME INTO CONTACT.WITH THEIR OFFICIAL WARRENT/LICENCE...[DAMM CAPS]

,,..<<..The condition varies depending on personality and opportunity and is uncontrollable.>>..IT COULD BE CONTROLLED..but police are too busy chasing kids for smoking pot..to policing the safety..of your super..or how much some have got.

like..in my perfect world..police stop/would only occurs..for saftey
and any danger results not in a fine.punishment..but by the cop issuing A REPAIR/EVEN REPLACEMENT..[DAMAGES.. ORDER..[THAT PAYS for legal/safe SOLUTIONS/TO IMMEDIATE PROBLEMS/or even buys a new car/REPAIRS A BROKEN HOME/HEALS BROKEN PEOPLE/INSTANTLY..effortlessly instantly..there and then..the 'fine; would be repaying..the order..interest free from income stream.

ie i want to trust police to punish..on the spot
that if arrested..the proof is presented..and neutral parties check/the right thing was done/THE OFFICER CAN ORDER LIKE A JUDGE ORDERS/THAT'S THEN REVIEWED..by courts..[even jail..or judge summery by jury..a cop must be a peace mAKER/NOT JUST POLICING POLICY/A COP HELPS FEED/HOUSE EDUCATE IDENTIFY..ANYTHING A MOTHER OR PRIEST WOULD COULD SHOULD DO

<<.SOLUTION.>>?
EMPOWER AND SUPPORT OUR SERVANTS
GIVE THEM THEIR SHARE OF HEAVENLY..REWARD..WHILE LIVING
NOT SAY A FEW NICe words over their grave./while they themselves suffered..Silently..died alone...[THIS EARTH..IS OUR HOME/RESPECT HER/HERE..she,IS ALL WE GOT.]

OUG – As I said previously you are a hard read so if I get things a bit wrong forgive me!

A world without money would have to resort to a barter system. I agree but I was more interested in your opinion as to what services would no longer be required.

In the absence of a monetary system those who don’t produce would have no natural income. They would have to re-educate, reskill, become producers or have an occupation that a producer is prepared to pay for with produce. A non-producers income would not continue as a matter of course, as you imply. Payment for services could never exceed production and debt would not exist. There is not a system of promissory notes (money) to support these two conditions.

Hypothetically we both know this scenario is impossible. It does illustrate debt and payments exceeding production cannot exist without money.

All too often we see the monetary system controlling the value of production. The point I am trying to make is that it should be the reverse. Production should control the value of money. To eliminate monetary slavey and increase productivity the actual producer should receive a greater portion of the productive value than the non-producer.

I would say: Empower and support our producers, don’t take more than your share.

With regard to greed: Police should not have the power to punish on the spot. They sole responsibility should be to the community they serve. I believe communities should be allowed limited autonomy to meter out justice to members of that community. To curb vigilantism autonomy should be with the oversight of a cost effective judiciary that is timely, grounded in the expectations of the community. I agree timely reparation and replacement is a just penalty in many situations.

I do like:
“Serve only the deserving, not the self-serving.”

Producer/OuG:

We need a level playing-field. The incomes that are being handed out to MANY Political and business upper echelon is now at an obscene level.

There is no balance at all when measuring financial reward for work carried out. The old saying: "If you pay peanuts, then you get monkeys!" is laughable. We are paying these people big bikkies and we still have monkeys, ( and let`s note what monkeys are best known for, sitting in trees masturbating!)

If I sound angry,...I am, because I am sick of hearing two-faced Politicians promising the world to get elected, and then thumbing their noses at the voting public, safe of course in the knowledge that all they have to do is sit on their blocks and agree with their boss, and in return not only reap a lavish income, but after serving a few years comatose on their bench, have a break-down or pack up and retire to civilian life with the obscene Parliamentary Superannuation that falls into their laps!

If any one of them was genuine in wanting to help the economy, they would be pushing for a Price and Wage control package ( but that of course could affect them ), and tackling many of the "special" deals handed out to the more affluent in our community, such as Negative Gearing and the like.

Politically, we should have first past the post elections, and when an elected member dies, resigns or gets jailed for fiddling, the next member with the highest votes at the time of the Election should then take up the vacant post,....imagine how much money would be saved then by unneccesary Bi-Elections.

I am sorry to say that over the last 60 years I have witnessed our country and the majority of its population, slowly decay to what it has now become, a present day generation of greedy, immoral and irresponsible citizenry (there are some exceptions, but it is a numbers game anyway, and the most numbers win! ).

I feel very sad for the children that will inherit this growing mess!

pro/quote..<<>.In the absence of a monetary system>>

im not saying..no money[im saying revalue our coin/issue money thats a promise to pay..in living seed/from the tree of life[we cant live without a fair store of value[read money]

no money..means its over/thats how hyperinflation begins[recall/when petrol jumped form under 20 cent/to over 80 cents[that was a simple 4 PERCENT..REDUCTION/OF Supply[THATS HOW BANKERS MAKE HYPER INFLATION..[Artificial fiscal shortage/now we know any 'shortage..is the lie

<<..those who don’t produce..would have no natural income.>>

natural/income?[govt payment?]
no payment..no way..minimum govt payment/3 feeds per day a safe place to sleep[in jail]

we not they..<<..would have to re-educate,..re-skill,
become producers..or have an occupation that a producer is prepared to pay for with produce.>>

TRAINING..ISNT ROCKET SCIENCE
FIRST FIND YOUR TALENT..THEN FIND OIUT HOW YOU CAN TURN/.THAT INTO MONEY/VALUE..[you might be a dancer/sculptor/singer landscaper hea;er/anything you got the aptitude to do..half the jobs are finding the occupation..that interests you[most jobs only seem boring/till you learn/the ropes..with respect..comes enjoyment

<<>.A non-producers income would not..continue as a matter of course, as you imply.>>

mate..in 1986..my oWN GOVT DECLARED WAR ON ME..[I refused to give anything[tax]etc..to govt to sustain/their abusive system/but yet now they hold a lien/over my home for noT PAYING THEIR REVENUE RAISING FINES[$3000..unpaid FINES GOVT STOLE my house/canceled/my license/rego..then my house..[the current system is abusive...mate its broke/a joke.

and you say i gotta support them/work for them
give my ideas skill to them..fu ck them..

yet here am i trying to save 'them'..
heck if you dont want to work..find out why/who hurt you/how

2/b..continued here
unless post limits/then..i finish it here
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6293&page=8

kill the excuse..and you give us back our life

<<>.Payment for services could never exceed production>>

production/services..mate..producer/banker currently make all monery
in fact..over the last 8 years..thet trippled the ammount of money[ouT OF THIN AIR]

PLEASE DONT BE TELLING ME GOVT CANT MINT ALL THE MONEY IT NEEDS
for near nothing /now i revalued its bASE/LIVING SEED FOR FOOD/FIBER/PETEO-CHEMICAL and debt would not exist.

<<.Hypothetically we both know this scenario is impossible.>>
[YOURS OR MINE?

<<..It does illustrate debt and payments
exceeding production cannot exist without money.>>

MAYBE AT CROSS PURPOSE/but..we have become so efficient/at PRODUCTION
IF ALL OF US WERE PRODUCING DOUBLE THE CURRENT PRODUCTION/THAT 'WOERK'[SHARED EQUALLY WOULD AMMOUNT TO LESS THAN ONE HOUR 'EMPLOYMENT/PER YEAR]

TTHERE SIMPLY ISNT ENOUGH..'WORK'..FOR ALL TO GET A JOB
[WHAT DO WE DO..KILL EM?]..SIMPLY CAUSE WE CANT 'EM-PLOY'/THEM?

<<>.All too often we see the monetary system
controlling the value of production.>>

NOW GIVE THAT/BACK..TO GOVT

<,..To eliminate monetary slavery..and increase productivity..the actual producer..should receive a greater portion..of the productive value..than the non-producer...don’t take more than your share.>>

AGREED/BUT..HOW MUCH DUPLICATED WASTED OBSOLETE CONSUMERIST CONSUMPTION/IS TO MUCH?..[SEE GONE WEST]

REGARDING VIGILANTISM..NO WAY..
POLICE MUST BE Fully trusted
or why empower thugs?
with guns?

I..AGREE WITH/CRACKUP
END/THE GREED/MINIMIZE THE NEED

<<..tackling many of the "special" deals handed out to the more affluent in our community, such as Negative Gearing and the like.>>

yeah..LET Investors live without that 25 billion subsidy/cash cow
tax transactions/via a withdrawal tax/2 percent..and get rid of all THE OTHER TAXES/ESPECIALLY SIN PUNITIVE TAXES..SNEAKY CONSUMER/SERVICING BILLING TAXES

Crackcup – 99 candidates run for a seat. 98 receive 1% of the vote one Copper Read gets2% and is elected, unfortunately first past the post like the current preferential system is not representative. As mentioned previously with the exception of Tasmania no parliament in this country governs with a majority. The only system that is representative is a proportional system. You may not like what you get but at least we will get those for whom we vote.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5047#135441

Crackcup and OUG – this is part of a discussion I had with Loudmouth some time ago that is relevant to this thread.

The basic principle that guides all my thinking is without production there is nothing, I therefore link everything back to that principle. Simplistic I know and I am open to having my mind changed but nobody has succeeded yet.

Let me try and explain with a few examples:

If we all sat down and did nothing we would not survive. We must produce food, shelter and clothing to survive

If we all were very busy doing something for example counting beans, we would not survive. It is not enough that we do something, it is critical that what we do produces something that enables us to survive.

Money only has value if it is linked to productivity. If the bean counters developed a system of money and they were paid by the amount of beans they counted, it would not work because they are not producing anything that they can purchase.

If we tease this out a bit further it can be argued that the wealth of this country is directly linked to productivity. Things like mining, agriculture and manufacturing are obvious examples.

Cont.