Platypus1900, you still haven't told us all what your wonderful 'cane' was made of, and whether your adult children use a cane on their own kids?
If not, why not?

Hasbeen I'm generally pretty cautious about assigning causation to a change when all that is clear is perceived correlation. I've seen that misused far to often to push agenda's.

A few points to ponder
- has the rate of anti-social behaviour actually risen or is it just more obvious because the outlets are different.
- What else has changed? One of the theories I tend to give more weight to is that genuine outlets for adventure have been reduced for kids leading to more artificial risk taking. That's driven changed attitudes to liability and more accessible but not necessarily satisfying entertainment. No evidence to back this but I have the impression that it's less likely that kids can get out and feel that they are having an real adventure now than when I was younger.
- Is the anti-social behaviour that bothers you spread evenly across society or concentrated more so in groups that have other issues? Are the groups most likely to have been impacted by changing views on parenting (especially reductions in corporal punishment) the ones where the anti-social behaviour that you notice is increasing.

platypus1900 sometimes I loose the plot a bit on that but I'd prefer to keep it civil and debate the issues rather than distort what I think others arguments are.

R0bert

I think you are right there RObert.

When I was young, we were left to roam the bush land across the road from our house, and we were often roaming many kilometres and away all day.
We built cubbies in the bush and fought 'wars' with the other neighbourhood kids.

I can't help but think we protect our kids too much these days, and that sitting behind computers all day is somehow not as satisfying for them.

But I would suggest that there are still many adults who abuse their kids today, just as much as they did in 'the good ol' days'.

I truly believe the current laws against physically abusing children (as with caning) are necessary.

@suseonline

ah...same issue again
i am against abusing children you know
and our views on how to discipline our children obviously differ

we then need to distinguish those who discipline and those who abuse

i guess you have seen parents abusing their children
if you were at my house 25-30 years ago, i dont think the atmosphere is one of abuse or a parent losing control of himself

but then again, who knows
you would have spanked me as well

there was this woman at the tourist shop i talked about
telling others how to raise up children
and she smokes in front of her young children

and there was this woman hurling abuses at my quadbike repairshop owner's wife when she moved 15m away to return a trolley
she had her grandchildren in the car to be safe
when she came back, there was this very caring and self-righteous woman screaming at her and threatening to report to the police

yes..there were cases of idiotic parents leaving their babies in the hot sun with the windows all wound up

all sorts

@Lexi
i recall my children told me of a school bully in their senior high school days

well known boy who stood out infamously in an otherwise well behaved cohort in a very good govt school (top 1&2 in our state)
he was impossible to control and gave the educationists hell

now listen to this
he often boasted no one had a right to punish him
he said he even warned his father that he would report him to the police if he even laid a finger on him

wow.
wow.

i wonder where this lad is today?
perhaps still taunting the police?
he wont be holding a job or taunting his employer as it is unlikely he will be holding a job

no sir...i wont employ this lad....not for free.

Susie I doubt it all just as simple as less roaming in the bush and cubby houses but I think you caught the gist of what I was meaning.

Changes such as those are in my view much more likely contributors to any increase in anti-social behaviour than a lack of smacks and canings - but I don't have the evidence to back that.

I'm also not convinced that the demographics most closely identified with increased levels of anti-social behaviour are the ones where there would have been a reduction in corporal punishment of children.

Agreed the abusers are still with us. I'm overall more bothered by the emotional abusers than the smackers. It's easier to identify and deal with physical force that results in injury. Much harder to deal with the emotional scars left by very bad parenting choices.

My overall impression is that the evidence is not there to substantiate claims of long term harm from occasional smacks used as a backup strategy when other forms of discipline are not working.

Parents who won't teach their children any boundaries (regardless of the means used to support those boundaries). Parents who continually attack a child's self worth or teach a lack of respect for self or others in their every day messages. A variety of other things parents do to vulnerable developing lives in their care that are much more likely to leaving lasting harm.

I don't like the enthusiasm some seem to display for smacking but I also wonder if those keen to see it banned have considered where it all goes for parents who are struggling if they don't have what is generally an effective way to stop a child who can't be reasoned with but where the parent still has responsibility. My gut feel is an increase in more damaging behaviours.

R0bert