The Forum > General Discussion > Arab Winter
Arab Winter
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Posted by spindoc, Saturday, 6 July 2013 11:53:50 AM
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Cont’d
This agitation has been harnessed by fundamentalism which is on the one hand seen as a means of achieving self determination and development, on the other hand it is seen as more divisive and conflict driven that the dictatorships under which they exist. This is primarily because fundamentalism has become directed against the west and the very aspirations many in the regions share, hence the Middle East’s schizophrenia. This schizophrenia is further compounded by political, economic and social meddling, not only by the west but also by fundamentalism, opportunist states and regimes within the M.E. One of the great tragedies of modern times and one of the greatest evils perpetrated upon the peoples of the underdeveloped nations, is the notion that their pain, suffering and poverty is a direct result of the policies, oppression, domination and power of the developed world, when in fact, it is a direct result of the policies, oppression, domination and power of their own leadership that is the primary cause. They don’t have any macro solutions to offer and micro solutions can only be achieved by each nation doing whatever it can without external or sectarian interference. My colleagues are critical of our progressive media. Their historical ignorance, lack of objectivity and political posturing makes things much worse for them They see our media as supporting radicalization and rogue regimes, not because of any concern for the M.E. peoples, but because it suits their anti-Israel posturing. They see this as unforgivable and an impediment to their own progress. So when you post that << A seemingly well informed commentator from that part of the world was on ABC Radio National. He claimed only two Nations Israel and Iran are stable. >> It is a blinding glimpse of the obvious that the ABC is utterly ignorant and clueless. It is clear that Iran and Israel are part of the M.E. trauma and inseparable from it. Unless you are an ignorant, eyes wide shut reporter from the ABC. Posted by spindoc, Saturday, 6 July 2013 11:54:48 AM
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This article by Chris Martenson summarises the biophysical statistics behind Egypt's predicament
http://www.resilience.org/stories/2011-02-10/egypts-warning-are-you-listening# In 1960, the population of Egypt was about 28 million, and they were self-sufficient in food. Now the population has nearly tripled, and they have to import 40% of their food and 60% of the grain that provides most of their calories. Egypt can no longer subsidise food by exporting oil. Oil production has gone into dramatic decline, and they now have to import oil for their own needs. Food prices on the world market have been extremely high since 2008. http://www.fao.org/worldfoodsituation/foodpricesindex/en/ As Martenson says: "Any country that has to import both oil and food is living on borrowed time." No imaginable government will be able to bring down food prices in Egypt or solve the massive unemployment problem, so massive social discontent will continue. The extreme Islamism is a symptom, not a cause. Posted by Divergence, Saturday, 6 July 2013 11:56:49 AM
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SPQR and spindoc from far different back grounds and thoughts we agree and understand each other in many matters.
This enforces a truth few can ignore, most, by far the most, of our country men and women think as we do. We in looking for answers must not ignore the great differences that exist between not only us and residents of Muslim Nations, but between them selves. Why the rage? Muslim against Muslim? How did it ever become OK to car bomb each other. How do we in the west get blamed for it. Even as troops died to free such as Iraq, why do some love us others hate? Why is our ever shrinking true left unwilling to stop blaming us and truly look for answers. The intellectual self satisfied, we have them here, good morning csteele, are owners of closed minds. Even in the deepest of despair at third generation Australians playing the roll of Toy Muslim haters, I know not all Muslims are like that. What a shame the true left fails to see, sometimes we dig our own holes. Posted by Belly, Saturday, 6 July 2013 2:36:31 PM
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Fundamentalist Muslim children are brain washed from infancy that the Law of Allah {shari'ah} is the rule of life and any who do not observe it fall under the judgment of Allah and must be put to death. They bring shame to the name of Allah. Their education system is indoctrination of hatred by the use of songs and poetry for any non fundamentalist. The higherst goal a person can achieve is martodom killing kafir. That includes anyone influenced by Western Democratic freedoms. America being the GREAT SATAN.
Posted by Josephus, Saturday, 6 July 2013 5:12:05 PM
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Well said.
Even within the Muslim comunity[ thankfully] many are aware SOME teachings are a danger. Not all Muslims kill other Muslims. While we debate who is at fault just what are the likely out comes from this Arab Winter. Will Dictatorships take the place of Arab spring? Will some Nations again fall and become part of others. In my first post I spoke of a claim only Israel and Iran are stable country,s in that part of the world is that true. Posted by Belly, Sunday, 7 July 2013 5:58:32 AM
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Many years ago I was based in the M.E for about twelve years. I worked in Lebanon, Syria, Israel, UAE and Saudi Arabia. Based upon that experience I formed some opinions that are not shared by the western media.
I was also in Egypt and North Africa until September 2011. During a wonderful trip down the Nile on a Felucca, we enjoyed many discussions with our guide Ahmed.
Ahmed is a devout Muslim and prayed daily on our trip. As discussions became more intimate an exchange of profound feelings deepened. We still exchange emails regularly.
What Ahmed and I share is our reality but based upon my understanding of the M.E. and his experience, we remarkably came to express similar conclusions.
Ahmed is University educated as an Archeologist, as is his wife. He privately expressed his grief that his sister in law, married to a Muslim Brotherhood member, had convinced his wife to “try out the Burqa”, it never came off again in public. He is devastated because his wife was previously westernized as much of Egypt was.
Given this introduction I can share our perspectives on M.E issues.
That the Muslim world has been divided and variously at war with itself since the 7th century. The M.E. has been the victim of occupation by external and internal forces for six thousand years. That none of the aggressors are better or worse than the conflict within Islam. That particularly because of WWI and WWII, the allies variously departing, left inconvenient national boundaries that cut across cultural, ethnic, religious, economic and history. They also put in place or endorsed leaderships that they saw as best able to mange both the west’s interests and the interests of their regions.
This led to the evolution of three types of dictatorships, military, religious and benign (Royal families). Because the peoples of this region are primarily interested in having social justice, equity, education and strong economies, which is what they perceive the west to have, they have long agitated for progress against their dictatorships.
Cont’d