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The Forum > General Discussion > Arab Winter

Arab Winter

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Runner, not too many years away from seeing the same rubbish in Australia!
Posted by Ludwig, Thursday, 4 July 2013 8:46:17 PM
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Dear Lexi,

Unfortunately nations pursue their interests or the interests of influential groups within their nation without thought of the consequences. In my opinion the biggest mistake the US has made in the Middle East was the US CIA and the British M16 sponsored coup in 1953 which turfed out Mossadegh and installed the Shah. The Shah was eventually overthrown and the present government resulted. Mossadegh nationalised Iranian oil, and the oil companies objected. If the US and the other countries with oil interests had just accepted Mossadegh's act and let the Iranians control their own oil things would be very different. They wound up controlling their own oil anyhow, but it could have simply been accepted earlier, and the result could have been an Iran with which we are at peace.

Mossadegh was an author, administrator, lawyer and prominent parliamentarian. He became the prime minister of Iran in 1951. His administration introduced a wide range of progressive social and political reforms such as social security, rent control, and land reforms. He seems much better than any national leader in the Middle East since then.

Another mistake was backing Saddam Hussein in his war against Iran. Then several years later Saddam Hussein became the great enemy.
Posted by david f, Thursday, 4 July 2013 11:34:53 PM
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It is a shame.
That this subject has slipped in to a blame the west one.
I could without raising a sweat, put a good blame it on France And Briton product together.
And take the root causes back 150 years ago.
Why then did the west help Libya?
Why are they considering help for Syria?
I rather think others things TOO can take the blame, for such hate.
Women and men Children and the old, innocents dieing by bomb car bomb to be precise.
If we get stuck on the whys how will it end?
If we blame the west why is Russia so involved?
What is the answer, our leaving Iraq only left them in todays troubled near civil war position.
Will Afghanistan, a Muslim but not middle east country face the same?
If we look for causes but not answers can we see and end to it?.
Posted by Belly, Friday, 5 July 2013 5:33:17 AM
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Dear Belly,

We are not responsible for all the mess, but we can acknowledge our responsibility. A lot of the blame rests on religion both ours and their's. Religion is great for giving a sense of unity and purpose. It is terrible for adapting to a changing world and looking at the world outside ourselves and our group. One thing the west can do and probably won't do is stop sending missionaries. Another thing we can do is support education for the region in general and girls in particular.

http://kasesehumanistschool.webs.com/ is the address of the Kasese Humanist School in Uganda where children can get an education free of religious indoctrination of any sort. My wife and I sponsor a girl there.
Posted by david f, Friday, 5 July 2013 8:19:01 AM
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We do have to acknowledge our responsibiity.

I mentioned pressure from such organisations as the World Bank. These things are happening in the modern world and are all intimatly connected with globalised capitalisation.

While Egypt was being named one of 2010's top performers, food prices were steadily rising for the general population. Here's a country being given a A1 tick buy globalised powers, where ordinary people are scratching around trying to buy bread.

http://anilnetto.com/corporate-led-globalisation/imfworld-bank/egypt-followed-imfworld-bank-ideas/.

http://www.doingbusiness.org/reforms/top-reformers-2010/

It's still happening - as in this case from Liberia (another "top reformer" from the 2010 list)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/liberia/10104422/Liberia-and-the-vanishing-rainforest.html

If the World Bank and the IMF wish to do business with these countries, then they should do it better than funnelling money from "economic reforms" to the elite at the expense of the general population. Such behaviour is liable to get you a revolution, one that will head in exactly the opposite direction from that which you would prefer.

We, as Westerners, represented by globalised capitalism in the form of organisations such as the World Bank, IMF and WTO, do share responsibility for the destabilisation of many of these countries
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 5 July 2013 8:48:58 AM
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Dear Poirot,

Globalised capitalised and religion are intimately related. Their relationship is complex.

http://www.mpifg.de/pu/mpifg_dp/dp12-2.pdf contains a study of the relationship.
Posted by david f, Friday, 5 July 2013 9:13:55 AM
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